Starke Sound AD4.320 Review (Multichannel Amplifier)

[Bobo77]

Hey Guys…I was here trying to get info on The Starke Amp and honestly report my findings in the interest of getting to the bottom of that whole situation... JRaab pointed me to the review at Audioholics…oh..pardon me.."Preview… and I discussed my feelings on it frankly in this forum and Gene came in here and attacked me instead of addressing my factual points. Honestly it upset me initially and I wanted to attack back, but I decided to stay cool, point out Genes behavior to him, state facts and let him bury himself. I was not looking for THAT whole interaction!…but I think that I was coming from the right place and I just want to thank everyone for the support you all gave me…that was REALLY COOL and so touching…that it made the end of my day quite blissful! THANKS!!!

 

[Bobo77]

Because it's an easy cop out that allows Starke to go "It wasn't us, it was the overseas provider". It's what poor companies and leaders do. They blame others and take no actions to ACTUALLY reconcile the issue.

JRaab…I totally agree with your post here. Plus, Gene "bailing" is even more telling. Instead of informing me/us with correct, honest facts and transparency in an adult manner, he Bully/Attacked me, blamed "others" and then ran away when confronted with simple facts.
EXACTLY what most bullies do when confronted.
I think we ALL got our answers about this Starke product... Truly.
Damn …that was Ugly.

 

[diddley]

I thought it was marvelous that Gene was a member here, it spoke imho of mutual respect for Amir and his body of work and the community.
But what he has shown in this thread is beyond any reasonable level of conduct.
He dug himself a hole and he fell in it.But Audioholics has lost alot more.
It's a shame really.But that's just my feelings regarding this mess.
I am glad that this site and the amount of expressional freedom it provides allows, and that the way people interact with eachother here is decent, with the occasional exception.

 

[JRS]

Exactly—I joined this forum because it was one of the least toxic hifi sites on the internet. Just the facts and no b.s.

Same. Tech Talk at Parts Express is also a non-toxic engineering oriented forum.

But when it comes to breadth, depth and sanity this is great place to rest your feet. I love the product measurements and insights into performance offered, or in the present use case, the lack thereof. Also having manufacturers comment and offer their perspective is a huge feature--where else can you get a bona fide expert to step in and offer advice versus some guy who knew someone who had the same issue and thinks he remembers....

 

[nstzya]

I understand the strong feelings of a few members who likely feel defrauded by this issue. I generally like the objectivity of the site and would hate for it to degenerate into a political and off topic mess one finds elsewhere. This is not the first characterization I have read about the site as toxic. In my opinion, there may be some overreaction and sensitivity at play - on all sides. Seems to be the general temperament of the populace in current times. Tolerance and a bit of civility please gentlemen (and ladies)?? Name calling never does any good to a discussion.

Somehow my comment got absorbed into the quotation section as I was deleting the quote. I was deleting it because I did not want JRabb to feel it was directed at him specifically - as it is not. It is directed at everyone able to look at their behavior and see any of it lacking.

We have an offer from the company for refund. Take it. Move on. Warn others in a manner they can accept/hear.

Namaste

 

[JRaab]

Somehow my comment got absorbed into the quotation section as I was deleting the quote. I was deleting it because I did not want JRabb to feel it was directed at him specifically.

We have an offer from the company for refund. Take it. Move on. Warn others in a manner they can accept/hear.

Namaste

All good. I wouldn't have taken it that way. I deal with Safety and Risk Management. So my job requires me to be open, honest and transparent all the time. I've eaten a lot of crow in my career and made calls that I had to own and stand there while I got my head caved in, but I still stood there and made no excuses. Because that's what my role requires, I'm the one person in the company that can't cut corners or not be entirely forthcoming and honest. So I tend to have strong feelings when I come across someone who doesn't hold to their own preached standards. I'll always have respect for someone that admits their mistakes and tries to make things right, no matter how big the screw-up. Even though he deleted his account, if being so angry at me or other commenters pushed Gene to up his standards then it's still at least something positive.

Trying to improve yourself to show me I'm wrong is still improving yourself, and that's never a bad thing.

 

[sarumbear]

I didn't know of this thread's existence until recently. The amp not measuring up to spec was a recent find from our reviewer as well and is being addressed with a retest early next year.

Even though ASR is about four times larger than yours...

I spend very little time on this forum for good reason. It's very toxic and not something I need in my life while I focus on running a magazine and consulting with people that appreciate what we do. You and others on here can continue to call me a "bully" or a "fraud" or claim some underhanded deal must have taken place if it makes you feel better. I'm done participating on this site and in fact will be deleting my account going forward.

Here are your marbles dear. Bye, bye, don't let the door hit you!

 

[drwho]

Just signed up because of this thread.. to balance out Gene leaving

I emailed Starke and was also ignored. These kind of poorly designed and engineered products are appreciated imo, it exposes fake reviews like Audioholics and Jay on YouTube.

What are the chance that both samples are "configured incorrectly".. zero.

 

[JRS]

Just signed up because of this thread.. to balance out Gene leaving

I emailed Starke and was also ignored. These kind of poorly designed and engineered products are appreciated imo, it exposes fake reviews like Audioholics and Jay on YouTube.

What are the chance that both samples are "configured incorrectly".. zero.

Maybe a small number a bit greater than zero--be helpful to know the serial numbers of the samples tested as it would make hooey tougher if far apart.

And thanks for joining. Although I am also new here, my impression is that ASR ordinarily is a very civil place.

 

[drwho]

Maybe a small number a bit greater than zero--be helpful to know the serial numbers of the samples tested as it would make hooey tougher if far apart.

And thanks for joining. Although I am also new here, my impression is ASR is ordinarily a very civil pace.

agreed.. I just rounded it down. If that's the case, it's an easy acknowledgement from Starke, issue a recall for the units that are affected and move on.. their behavior doesn't convey that though. We'll see I guess, looking forward to the correct unit Audioholics will receive. I would argue Audio Science should get one too.

 

[starke sound]

Message from the manufacturer: When this article was first posted it was brought to our attention. We were taken aback by the aggressive commentary on this site and it seemed that having a constructive discourse would not be possible, so we have refrained from responding until now. We are of course disappointed with the author’s measurements and a bit puzzled at how exactly he arrived at those conclusions. We have no idea where the author received this unit from, if it had been altered or damaged, and no script was provided in which we could use to accurately replicate his testing methods. In addition, the author did not reach out to us for comment or ask to provide a second unit for comparison. Our current policy is that if anyone is not satisfied with the power output for any reason we’ll promptly provide return shipping and a full refund. As of now out of all the units sold we’ve had only 3 units returned in this manner. This will be our only statement.

 

[JRaab]

Message from the manufacturer: When this article was first posted it was brought to our attention. We were taken aback by the aggressive commentary on this site and it seemed that having a constructive discourse would not be possible, so we have refrained from responding until now. We are of course disappointed with the author’s measurements and a bit puzzled at how exactly he arrived at those conclusions. We have no idea where the author received this unit from, if it had been altered or damaged, and no script was provided in which we could use to accurately replicate his testing methods. In addition, the author did not reach out to us for comment or ask to provide a second unit for comparison. Our current policy is that if anyone is not satisfied with the power output for any reason we’ll promptly provide return shipping and a full refund. As of now out of all the units sold we’ve had only 3 units returned in this manner. This will be our only statement.

You absolute liars. I have emailed you twice asking about a refund and you never responded. Clearly StarkeSound does not stand behind their work and cannot be trusted as a manufacturer. I inquired on every one of your social media accounts about this and was blocked rather than you PMing me to discuss my posts.

Gene from Audioholics has also stated that a unit sent to him, by you, failed to come close to your advertised specs. So this is not an ASR review issue. This is a StarkeSound quality and leadership issue.

You absolute liars.

 

[Dj7675]

Message from the manufacturer: When this article was first posted it was brought to our attention. We were taken aback by the aggressive commentary on this site and it seemed that having a constructive discourse would not be possible, so we have refrained from responding until now. We are of course disappointed with the author’s measurements and a bit puzzled at how exactly he arrived at those conclusions. We have no idea where the author received this unit from, if it had been altered or damaged, and no script was provided in which we could use to accurately replicate his testing methods. In addition, the author did not reach out to us for comment or ask to provide a second unit for comparison. Our current policy is that if anyone is not satisfied with the power output for any reason we’ll promptly provide return shipping and a full refund. As of now out of all the units sold we’ve had only 3 units returned in this manner. This will be our only statement.

-Disappointing response
-If asked Amir has a policy to share whatever is needed. All it would have taken instead of no comment for so long is creating an account, and sending him a message
-Maybe I misunderstood Audioholics response, but my understanding is their results showed similiar to what Amir’s showed. In fact, on the Audioholics preview page it says this:
”Note (11/3021): Our review unit produced low power bench test results. Starke Sound accidentally sent us a unit with a 230V transformer and asked us to delay the review followup to this preview article until they can submit a new sample with the proper 120V components early next year. Stay tuned...”

Starke Sound’s 4-Channel AD4.320 Amplifier Uses Proprietary Class D Tech, BIG Power

Starke Sound’s new AD4.320 4-channel power amplifier ($1,399) uses a home-grown Class D amplifier module combined with an old-school linear power supply. It can be bridged for up to 650 watts!

www.audioholics.com

-There are 2 sources of measurements showing 2 review units with similar results (ASR and AH)
-My question would be, was there a bad batch of hardware that is not meeting spec or not?
-This particular site is different than other ”review” sites. Members want to see how their gear measures.. they send it (or it is drop shipped to him when the customer purchases it) and Amir publishes the measurements. Sometimes manufactures will send in their gear too, but for the most part it is members that send it in.
A proper response would be something like:
-You see review which shows your unit vastly under performing specs
-Create an account, contact Amir, get on the same page regarding measurements,
-If units are under spec, contact those customers affected, repair/replace untits
-Either ship units meeting your specs, or change the listed spec
-Don’t try to lay blame on the guy doing the measurement
This just does look good any way you look at it.

 

[amirm]

Message from the manufacturer: When this article was first posted it was brought to our attention. We were taken aback by the aggressive commentary on this site and it seemed that having a constructive discourse would not be possible, so we have refrained from responding until now. We are of course disappointed with the author’s measurements and a bit puzzled at how exactly he arrived at those conclusions. We have no idea where the author received this unit from, if it had been altered or damaged, and no script was provided in which we could use to accurately replicate his testing methods. In addition, the author did not reach out to us for comment or ask to provide a second unit for comparison. Our current policy is that if anyone is not satisfied with the power output for any reason we’ll promptly provide return shipping and a full refund. As of now out of all the units sold we’ve had only 3 units returned in this manner. This will be our only statement.

The unit under test was purchased from you, and sent back to you to get a refund. How on earth would you not know its history? And the condition it was under when it was returned to you? What exactly was modified in it since you have had it for two months now?

Gene says that you have said that a few of the units were shipped with 240 transformers. How is this possible when there is a voltage switch in the unit to change the winding ratio of the transformer?

The review itself was not aggressive in any manner. It reflected the results and invited anyone, including you to comment:

-----------
As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

I provide a service to membership to have their audio products tested. It is not my job to chase after you. It is yours to follow up. It is not like you took initiative to contact me and send a sample in for review (in which case, you would have been notified of issues prior to publication). Many manufacturers have followed up with me post testing and built a lot of goodwill with the membership and me as a result, regardless of the review results.

You had promised us third-party measurements. Why have these not materialized? Why is it that Audioholics unit suffered similar issues? And got same results I did?

Do you not power test units during manufacturing to know if amplifiers are producing far less output than advertised? What was the deal with posting power measurement graph and then deleting it?

As to providing "full refund," people sell all kinds of nonsense to cure all kind of disease. Are you suggesting that people should buy them all and if they don't work, "return them for full refund?" Or put responsibility on the manufacturer to prove efficacy? And when testing shows otherwise, be responsible for a proper response?

 

[mdsimon2]

Message from the manufacturer: When this article was first posted it was brought to our attention. We were taken aback by the aggressive commentary on this site and it seemed that having a constructive discourse would not be possible, so we have refrained from responding until now. We are of course disappointed with the author’s measurements and a bit puzzled at how exactly he arrived at those conclusions. We have no idea where the author received this unit from, if it had been altered or damaged, and no script was provided in which we could use to accurately replicate his testing methods. In addition, the author did not reach out to us for comment or ask to provide a second unit for comparison. Our current policy is that if anyone is not satisfied with the power output for any reason we’ll promptly provide return shipping and a full refund. As of now out of all the units sold we’ve had only 3 units returned in this manner. This will be our only statement.

This is such an absurd response I almost wonder if it is not really Starke.

Michael

 

[JRS]

This is such an absurd response I almost wonder if it is not really Starke.

Michael

Something wrong with the smell test to be sure. First two sentences in particular. But if it wasn't Starke, now would be a very good time to stand up and come forward. .

 

[starke sound]

You absolute liars. I have emailed you twice asking about a refund and you never responded. Clearly StarkeSound does not stand behind their work and cannot be trusted as a manufacturer. I inquired on every one of your social media accounts about this and was blocked rather than you PMing me to discuss my posts.

Gene from Audioholics has also stated that a unit sent to him, by you, failed to come close to your advertised specs. So this is not an ASR review issue. This is a StarkeSound quality and leadership issue.

You absolute liars.

Please contact us, we'd be happy to give you a full refund.

 

[voodooless]

We were taken aback by the aggressive commentary on this site and it seemed that having a constructive discourse would not be possible, so we have refrained from responding until now.

Grow up, it’s the internet, people act out a bit.. so what if your feefees were hurt? In fact you’re only making things worse by still refusing constructive discourse. Instead you choose to keep your mouth shut, do some more hand waving and hope it all goes away. We’re actually mostly nice guys once you get to know us, most of us don’t even bite, maybe some nibble a tiny bit .

We are of course disappointed with the author’s measurements and a bit puzzled at how exactly he arrived at those conclusions.

You should be disappointed with your product, not about the measurements. No matter if this thing would fail QC or not, it’s the product showing the performance. So are you really saying “we are disappointed this came out”?

no script was provided in which we could use to accurately replicate his testing methods.

The main bulk of these tests are so straightforward that they should not need a script. Also, one could just ask? Why not just share what you have. We are mostly knowledgeable people and will figure it out.. but that is probably exactly what you are afraid of.

Please contact us, we'd be happy to give you a full refund.

Then why did you not respond twice?

Furthermore: can you guarantee that current production units are in correct working order and meet advertised specs?

 

[Bobo77]

Something wrong with the smell test to be sure. First two sentences in particular. But if it wasn't Starke, now would be a very good time to stand up and come forward. .

Something wrong with the smell test to be sure. First two sentences in particular. But if it wasn't Starke, now would be a very good time to stand up and come forward. .

You absolute liars. I have emailed you twice asking about a refund and you never responded. Clearly StarkeSound does not stand behind their work and cannot be trusted as a manufacturer. I inquired on every one of your social media accounts about this and was blocked rather than you PMing me to discuss my posts.

Gene from Audioholics has also stated that a unit sent to him, by you, failed to come close to your advertised specs. So this is not an ASR review issue. This is a StarkeSound quality and leadership issue.

You absolute

Something wrong with the smell test to be sure. First two sentences in particular. But if it wasn't Starke, now would be a very good time to stand up and come forward. .

JRS, I agree with you on the "smell test" comment, but this does fall in-line with much of Starke's previous behavior. First, Starke knows that they have not replied to various customers, like JRaab to show concern, inform the customer, ask questions or give a refund..Starke knows that two units that have been tested by credible sources and been considerably out of spec. Starke also knows that they are deleting comments on their Facebook page of inquiry about this issue, even those of customers. Clearly, Gene has gone to Starke Sound to alert them of the investigative discourse here, on this forum. The timing makes that clear. If the post is Starke Sound (which I believe that it is), why does the person not identify themselves? Why is no apology made about their documented poor behavior to customers? Why is that person in my estimation "talking down" to Amir and the customers and potential customers here? Why do they state mis-truths in the above statement, and imply that Amir is the problem, not their amplifiers? Why..after all this time is there still no responsible, satisfactory explanation provided to anyone about the issue. The voltage transformer "reason" does not sit with any technical observer here from what I am reading. Correct? Why are the power specs of the AD4.321 listed by Starke in a "non-standard manner" compared to regular power specification measurements of almost all reputable, power amplifier companies? My observation would be that this is a "put-a-fire-out" contact from Starke. I hope that JRaab will contact Starke and report back here with the results. Even if he is given a refund, which would be fantastic, there is no "real" transparent, responsible concern from Starke, nor do we have a "working" amplifier that tests properly for basic power output spec or a valid, responsible, understandable technical answer to this situation (am I correct in stating that?), after months of inquiry. It is all still very "sketchy". Isn't it? Why wasn't JRaab given a refund BEFORE? The company's behavior in multiple contact locations has been far less than professional, which I personally feel this contact falls into that category, as well. I am personally so glad that I did not purchase this product, and this site helped me avoid going down that rabbit hole. THANKS! The whole situation is sad and disturbing. It has been a huge learning experience and wake-up call to this consumer about audio reviews in all media and by YouTube influencers/reviewers in general. In that regard it has been rewarding and informing. It makes me a sharper consumer who is still shopping for a power amp.

 

[nstzya]

A less than informative response from Starke - but I imagine a very legal one. They have essentially responded without accepting any culpability or admission of fault. And made an open offer to refund anyone dissatisfied to which they can point if this should escalate. I suggest everyone dissatisfied take that offer and keep a paper or electronic trail of correspondence.

At this point, your energy is wasted with further comments here. Although I am sure Starke will continue to monitor the thread, its unlikely they will engage further. We already see a few people who were unaware. Perhaps your energy would be better spent ”spreading awareness”? As my daddy always said, you might not be able to force their feet closer to the fire, but you can always make the fire bigger!