Starke Sound AD4.320 Review (Multichannel Amplifier)

[voodooless]

Also, why bring up the voltage issue after two months? It was offered as a possible solution just a day after the review? Would have been easy to do some decent communication about this and prevent a whole lot of animosity.

 

[Bobo77]

Also, why bring up the voltage issue after two months? It was offered as a possible solution just a day after the review? Would have been easy to do some decent communication about this and prevent a whole lot of animosity.

I agree with you.

 

[JRS]

I have not heard of The Dutch and Dutch 8c? What product is that?
So…I could be brainwashed from the reviews of the s400s. LOL.
Have you listened to either version of The Buchardts? I thought that they were legit…I have never actually heard them. I have read nothing bad about them.
They do offer a trial period, though.
Edit: just looked-up, very breifly…The Dutch & Dutch 8c. OK..I know little, but that looks absurdly expensive for what it is!. Obviously similar in design to the Buchardts..but more than 6x the price. It's a powered speaker with more drivers…but still seems way overpriced. Would love to be able to listen to both. I am open minded.

I haven't heard it but generally considered here to be a top rank speaker along with others such as JBL M2, Genelec 8351 and top of the line Revel speakers in other words extraordinary transducers that are <10k $$ per pair.

 

[nstzya]

I don't think we need to make this thread into an attack on audioholics.

I agree.
That said, speaking as apparently the only person to have returned one for refund (frankly surprising), I would suggest simply doing the same. I conversed with the company’s email contact given on the site.
Still not sure why Starke is not responding here directly, but appreciate Gene’s contacting the company and following up on this. I’ll be curious to view any repeat testing for curiosity’s sake. I am curious however - how Starke would know without examining all 100 that only 5 have transformer problems?? And what are the odds that both review samples would be amongst those 5 out of 100 - particularly given that Amir’s sample was completely random private sale?

 

[JRaab]

No offense but if you think my response is "bullying" you need to grow thicker skin. Really, bullying? God help us that we live in such a hurtfeelioma cancel culture society these days.

With that said, I spoke to Starke today and apparently our review unit has a 230V transformer similar to what Amir tested. They received a 4 or 5 units like this domestically and as a result have lower power output when used in 120V. They also offer a refund/return to anyone that is unsatisfied with their amp. To date, they've shipped 100 and have only had 1 return from what they are telling me. This isn't shocking considering they are a relatively new company and still establishing.

Now that we know the reason for the power issue, we await getting a new unit with the proper domestic transformer to retest and publish a full REVIEW, to followup on our preview article.

Google has changed the way it ranks content based on page title. I used to put "preview" in these articles but found catchy organic titles work much better. The breadcrumb trail has review in it bc our reviews and previews share a common folder. I am working with my web developer to create a breadcrumb trail that labels "preview" articles as such. This site is the only instance this has been an issue in our 22+ years of publishing but I understand the confusion and working on our end to improve that.

Hey Gene,

That's an outright lie from Starke. I've emailed them multiple times and received only 1 response (the initial @amirm "doesn't know what he's doing). Other than that it's been radio silence or blocking on social media when I ask in the comments section of their posts. Other commenters here have also heard absolutely nothing from Starke when they inquired about the measurements.

And as far as bullying, it was. You immediately called everyone snakes and asses when we had legitimate issues with your ethics. You had a chance to be mature and do something good, instead you chose the childish name-calling route. This thread shows exactly who Gene DellaSalla is, a small, childish man who can't take criticism and will only hold to his claims of unbiased reviews and ethics when forced to. You deserve no respect, Audioholics deserves no respect and your reviewers should be ashamed of the fact that they knowingly withheld important measurements for a consumer product that you hocked as amazing and received ad revenue from the manufacturer for.

Simply put, You Are A Fraud.

 

[jhaider]

Edit: just looked-up, very breifly…The Dutch & Dutch 8c. OK..I know little, but that looks absurdly expensive for what it is!. Obviously similar in design to the Buchardts..but more than 6x the price. It's a powered speaker with more drivers…but still seems way overpriced. Would love to be able to listen to both. I am open minded.

Not really similar in design.

I don’t follow YouRube audio (I do often watch Erin’s excellent reviews) but the 8c is a superbly engineered loudspeaker and quite a novel design. Incidentally, many of us have seen this speaker “grow up” from concept to product over a span of years.

 

[greenpsycho]

So again, I'm super confused. This website publishes a review indicating the unit is performing bad. NO ONE believe Amir (not starke, not the rest of the internet, no one). In fact, starke refuses to investigate or comment, blocks/refuses all communication with actual customers surrounding it, etc.

Meanwhile, Gene had posted marketing talking points previously under a "preview". He also had a unit in for review, it tested similar to Amir's and he could corroborate this. But radio silence from him, from Starke etc. At this point, Starke KNOWS full well there is an issue, Gene knows there is an issue. So basically, all of this would have stayed in the dark, swept under the rug, etc etc until the members here starting pulling this thread.

Is anyone else outraged at Starke, Gene and Audioholics? How do we know Starke isn't lying AGAIN, and all previous units were bad? How are we to trust anything Audioholics has to say when NONE of this would have come to light if Amir didn't review and we didn't hold peoples feet to the fire? There would never have been a post that was like "oh hey, we got a bad review unit in - here's the numbers, we'll post a followup once the manufacturer responds"

This is all insane and no one comes out looking great here except for the objective numbers which Amir found.

 

[Bobo77]

I haven't heard it but generally considered here to be a top rank speaker along with others such as JBL M2, Genelec 8351 and top of the line Revel speakers in other words extraordinary transducers that are <10k $$ per pair.

I am a big follower of Tarun on The British Audiophile and he gets INTO the tech in all things audiophile...real intelligent guy....and he has me convinced that a powered speaker "dun right" is a better way to go. If the design is well conceived each driver can have a tailor made amp just for its characteristics...and therefore get the maximum performance...Makes sense...but that would take all the pain away of me buying seperate components and trying to match them up! LOL! BTW Tarun has ALL separates as well....but intellectually it makes sense and I believe that it could be the way of the future....but who knows. I would love to hear a speaker that has a passive and well-designed active version. Tarun has a podcast with a speaker designer from ATC...and it is quite enlightening and interesting:

 

[nstzya]

With that said, I spoke to Starke today and apparently our review unit has a 230V transformer similar to what Amir tested. They received a 4 or 5 units like this domestically and as a result have lower power output when used in 120V. They also offer a refund/return to anyone that is unsatisfied with their amp.

 

[JRaab]

Also, why bring up the voltage issue after two months? It was offered as a possible solution just a day after the review? Would have been easy to do some decent communication about this and prevent a whole lot of animosity.

Because it's an easy cop out that allows Starke to go "It wasn't us, it was the overseas provider". It's what poor companies and leaders do. They blame others and take no actions to ACTUALLY reconcile the issue.

 

[JRaab]

I am a big follower of Tarun on The British Audiophile and he gets INTO the tech in all things audiophile...real intelligent guy....and he has me convinced that a powered speaker "dun right" is a better way to go. If the design is well conceived each driver can have a tailor made amp just for its characteristics...and therefore get the maximum performance...Makes sense...but that would take all the pain away of me buying seperate components and trying to match them up! LOL! BTW Tarun has ALL separates as well....but intellectually it makes sense and I believe that it could be the way of the future....but who knows. I would love to hear a speaker that has a passive and well-designed active version. Tarun has a podcast with a speaker designer from ATC...and it is quite enlightening and interesting:

I like his channel as well. Seems to review in an even keel manner. Never seen him do measurements, but I've only seen a few of his videos, so I've used his stuff more as a jumping point to do more research on stuff he thinks sound good.

 

[Gene DellaSala]

So again, I'm super confused. This website publishes a review indicating the unit is performing bad. NO ONE believe Amir (not starke, not the rest of the internet, no one). In fact, starke refuses to investigate or comment, blocks/refuses all communication with actual customers surrounding it, etc.

Meanwhile, Gene had posted marketing talking points previously under a "preview". He also had a unit in for review, it tested similar to Amir's and he could corroborate this. But radio silence from him, from Starke etc. At this point, Starke KNOWS full well there is an issue, Gene knows there is an issue. So basically, all of this would have stayed in the dark, swept under the rug, etc etc until the members here starting pulling this thread.

Is anyone else outraged at Starke, Gene and Audioholics? How do we know Starke isn't lying AGAIN, and all previous units were bad? How are we to trust anything Audioholics has to say when NONE of this would have come to light if Amir didn't review and we didn't hold peoples feet to the fire? There would never have been a post that was like "oh hey, we got a bad review unit in - here's the numbers, we'll post a followup once the manufacturer responds"

This is all insane and no one comes out looking great here except for the objective numbers which Amir found.

I didn't know of this thread's existence until recently. The amp not measuring up to spec was a recent find from our reviewer as well and is being addressed with a retest early next year.

I spend very little time on this forum for good reason. It's very toxic and not something I need in my life while I focus on running a magazine and consulting with people that appreciate what we do. You and others on here can continue to call me a "bully" or a "fraud" or claim some underhanded deal must have taken place if it makes you feel better. I'm done participating on this site and in fact will be deleting my account going forward.

 

[JRS]

I am a big follower of Tarun on The British Audiophile and he gets INTO the tech in all things audiophile...real intelligent guy....and he has me convinced that a powered speaker "dun right" is a better way to go. If the design is well conceived each driver can have a tailor made amp just for its characteristics...and therefore get the maximum performance...Makes sense...but that would take all the pain away of me buying seperate components and trying to match them up! LOL! BTW Tarun has ALL separates as well....but intellectually it makes sense and I believe that it could be the way of the future....but who knows. I would love to hear a speaker that has a passive and well-designed active version. Tarun has a podcast with a speaker designer from ATC...and it is quite enlightening and interesting:

Thanks for the link, and you can count me a member of the powered speaker "dun right" is the way to go, e.g. Genelec and JBL's (wasn't aware that they M2 were 25k) being part of that growing camp. Personally, I gave up on commercial loudspeakers entirely back about 2002, and have done a few bi and tri amped active speakers that I put together because a) it was fun b) it was relatively inexpensive (I had owned a few commercial speakers few in the 4 to 10k range) and c) the satisfaction of listening to something that one has made personally: done the math, made the msmts, cut the wood, and applied the finish and tuned the results to ones taste, well there is nothing that comes close and d) if for whatever reason the sound started to grate (like a well loved spouse who can really push your buttons and you'd like a trade-in) I cold begin anew with an investment of 1 to 1.5k. So if you're on the fence, I would definitely go with powered speakers and ideally a pair that allows room EQ. That's the straight ticket to an inexpensive e ride IMHO. Anyow appreciate the link and the recommendation.

 

[JRaab]

I didn't know of this thread's existence until recently. The amp not measuring up to spec was a recent find from our reviewer as well and is being addressed with a retest early next year.

I spend very little time on this forum for good reason. It's very toxic and not something I need in my life while I focus on running a magazine and consulting with people that appreciate what we do. You and others on here can continue to call me a "bully" or a "fraud" or claim some underhanded deal must have taken place if it makes you feel better. I'm done participating on this site and in fact will be deleting my account going forward.

You may not have known, but your people did. As is stated in Matt's initial post. So SOMEONE at Audioholics knew it existed, knew about the results, tested your unit, got similar results, the sat on those results while allowing Starke to openly advertise on your site and hock a product which someone at Audioholics knew was faulty.

So the buck stops with you. These are YOUR people, these are YOUR reviews/previews, the videos star YOU in them. They didn't withhold the measurements on their own, someone made the conscious decision to not make your findings public and be transparent with your consumers. So, as you say, you run the magazine. So did you instruct them to not publish or did @Matthew J Poes make that call on his own?

Edit: Also, wasn't it you just a few moments ago that was telling others to have thicker skin and not to be upset? Now you run and hide because we're holding you accountable to the standards you claim to have on the very magazine you run? Take a good look in the mirror Gene and see how thick your own skin is you hypocrite.

 

[diddley]

It's very toxic and not something I need in my life

Well I think it's one of those rare sites that not is toxic.
You can learn, people are helpful, it gives a great inside in how the industrie and reviewers work.
By you chicking out, you show that you are thin skinned yourself.
I won't be visiting your site no more as a return for how you handeld this.
I hope more people will do the same, because you deserve no respect.

 

[Billy Budapest]

I have not heard of The Dutch and Dutch 8c? What product is that?
So…I could be brainwashed from the reviews of the s400s. LOL.
Have you listened to either version of The Buchardts? I thought that they were legit…I have never actually heard them. I have read nothing bad about them.
They do offer a trial period, though.
Edit: just looked-up, very breifly…The Dutch & Dutch 8c. OK..I know little, but that looks absurdly expensive for what it is!. Obviously similar in design to the Buchardts..but more than 6x the price. It's a powered speaker with more drivers…but still seems way overpriced. Would love to be able to listen to both. I am open minded.

I was not commenting about the quality of the Buchardt and Dutch & Dutch products, but rather that both manufacturers blazed onto the scene out of nowhere and immediately became darlings of the YouTubers.

And for what it’s worth, any time I hear someone use the words “cancel culture,” “ SJW,” or “snowflake,” I know they are not coming from an unbiased perspective and do not take much of what they say seriously as they usually are beholden to ulterior interests rather than objective facts.

 

[JRaab]

Well I think it's one of those rare sites that not is toxic.
You can learn, people are helpful, it gives a great inside in how the industrie and reviewers work.
By you chicking out, you show that you are thin skinned yourself.
I won't be visiting your site no more as a return for how you handeld this.
I hope more people will do the same, because you deserve no respect.

Right? The mental backflips he must be doing to come on here, call everyone else "A pit of snakes", "asses", wimpy thinned skinned and idiots but say WE'RE the toxic ones for holding him accountable for articles his consumer magazine posts is beyond parody.

 

[amirm]

Gene asked me to delete his account which I did.

I am confident the answer they have given holds no water as the unit has a switchable transformer. Even if that was not the case, if you run the lower voltage regulators at half the voltage, they would lose regulation and lot of things would not work. It is not like the output stage has its own independent transformer.

Good news is that we have full confirmation of the problem now. Hopefully when Audioholics does its review, it recounts the issues they had with their first sample and my measurements. Skipping over that and just testing something new and different under the same model number would create a lot of confusion and disservice to customers of this company.

 

[Billy Budapest]

Well I think it's one of those rare sites that not is toxic.
You can learn, people are helpful, it gives a great inside in how the industrie and reviewers work.

Exactly—I joined this forum because it was one of the least toxic hifi sites on the internet. Just the facts and no b.s.

 

[JRaab]

Gene asked me to delete his account which I did.

I am confident the answer they have given holds no water as the unit has a switchable transformer. Even if that was not the case, if you run the lower voltage regulators at half the voltage, they would lose regulation and lot of things would not work. It is not like the output stage has its own independent transformer.

Good news is that we have full confirmation of the problem now. Hopefully when Audioholics does its review, it recounts the issues they had with their first sample and my measurements. Skipping over that and just testing something new and different under the same model number would create a lot of confusion and disservice to customers of this company.

Wholeheartedly agree @amirm and thank you for everything you do when testing. The fact that you post results, bad or good, but openly try to help a manufacturer work on the issues says a lot for your integrity and ethics. Plus, if s company is openly willing to work with you to improve that makes me very confident in that teams equipment and I for one would be willing to buy from any company that stands behind their products and the consumer like that. I'm going to become a paying supporter now so you can keep doing these transparent and unbiased reviews.

Sorry for bogarting the thread, but I bought 2 of these units based off, now proven to be false, reviews and the fact that Starke Sound has gone radio silent on any communications makes me want to ensure any future buyers know what kind of company they're buying from. Hopefully their leadership team will reach out and try to make it right. It would go a long way to repairing their image.