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Starke Sound AD4.320 Review (Multichannel Amplifier)

greenpsycho

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As for reviews/previews, unless the title says "review" its NOT a review. This has been implicitly understood by our readers for 22+ years. In the past, I tried to separate review/preview content with tabs on the sectional pages but Google didn't like that. I also tried to separate reviews/previews into the new 2 column layout of the site but it would make pages with thin content in one category look wrong. Perhaps we can add a disclaimer at the bottom of preview articles stating it's a preview but honestly, the 5 or 6 critics here would likely just find something else to complain about my site and this hasn't been a problem for our readers.

I don't think we need to make this thread into an attack on audioholics. But gene, please take this feedback and make good out of it. If something is implicit that means you fell short. I'm not saying it's necessarily an FTC violation, although maybe some of it is pretty close, but you need to be explicit about what is and is not a review/sponsored content etc. That's just how the law works, and that's the bare minimum. Everyone in publishing should be better and do more than the bare minimum. Please do that for yourself and for us.
 
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Gene DellaSala

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I’m even more glad now!

I would like to thank Mr Poes for his response and his honesty. That said, I agree that the “preview“ was a bit poorly conceived and misleading and that Audioholics‘ feet should be held to the fire over it. I remember reading it at the time and getting to the last line where he had not yet actually even heard it and dismissing the entire thing as an empty fluff preview piece. I know that this sort of thing can only tarnish a publication’s image. I would encourage some sort of formal published followup - which may or may not already be in the works.

But more importantly, Mr Poes’ measurements confirm what appears to be a real problem with the unit. And one for which Starke’s feet should be the ones held closest to the fire and who should certainly be addressing this. Rather they are still actively selling and promoting them - running Black Friday specials on them??

EDIT: seems I must have been composing at the same time as you, Gene. Thank you for correcting the article and addressing the problem. If only Starke wouLd be as forthcoming.
I will email them about this as I figured they stopped shipping the product until they fixed the issue in their production.
 
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Gene DellaSala

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I don't think we need to make this thread into an attack on audioholics. But gene, please take this feedback and make good out of it. If something is implicit that means you fell short. I'm not saying it's necessarily an FTC violation, although maybe some of it is pretty close, but you need to be explicit about what is and is not a review/sponsored content etc. That's just how the law works, and that's the bare minimum. Everyone in publishing should be better and do more than the bare minimum. Please do that for yourself and for us.
Good points, but again this was NOT a sponsored article. We have those and indicate it here:https://www.audioholics.com/editorials/5-video-display-solns

We are fully compliant with the FTC Article16 CFR Part 255 which deals with the disclosure of Endorsements and Testimonials.

With that said, I will see if my web developer can add "preview" to the breadcrumb trail for this article type without it causing any issues.
 

Dj7675

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I can only add that I am the one who is doing the review. At the time the preview was written, we didn’t have a product. Typically our previews have not been in actual products. The term referred to a simple retelling is the manufacturers claims. As you already noted, this product looked compelling on paper. It did to us as well. We had no reason to believe it would have measured so differently than the spec.

That preview was written long before I even knew I would be reviewing the amplifier. That point is important. We didn’t find out that the amp was intended as more of a utility amp until I asked about its design and performance for the review. They made clear that the Class D amp is meant more channels, like ATMOS, where ultimate fidelity isn’t necessary. I thought, ok that is disappointing but not a deal breaker. A $1200 amplifier that can do the atmos channels, is well made, and reliable would still be a useful product. That assumed it measured as specified. Amir’s review came out before I could even open mine. That didn’t bode well for the product. So I opened it to see if I would get similar or different results. Maybe he had a bad unit. Mine measured similar. So clearly something was wrong. Maybe the amplifier was built incorrectly relative to what was specified. I once tested an amplifier with a similar problem, it turned out the wrong transformer was used in a number of batches. The rails were half what they should have been. The spec sheet sent to the transformer manufacturer said 25v center tap toroidal 350va. What they got was 12.5v-0-12.5v but what they needed was 25v-0-25v. I have no idea what is going on here, but we agreed to wait for a new amplifier and see if it measures similarly. Maybe it’s similar and a wrong part was snuck in by a supplier. With foreign manufacturing it’s very common.
Appreciate the added info. If the above is the issue for the product not meeting spec, it would seem that current owners would be owed a fix/replacement so the amp has the proper components to meet the spec they assumed they were getting when purchased.
 

JRaab

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Appreciate the added info. If the above is the issue for the product not meeting spec, it would seem that current owners would be owed a fix/replacement so the amp has the proper components to meet the spec they assumed they were getting when purchased.
That would be nice, and go a long way to show company strength, but with how Starke has so far responded, or not responded in most cases, yet continues to sell their equipment without concern, I think expecting them to do any kind of voluntary fix or replacement is a long shot. People are more likely stuck with equipment that does not perform as advertised. And Starke will continue to sell equipment that they, at least in part, know does not meet their advertised specs.
 

JRS

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Since it is so far from claimed output perhaps you can return it and if they resist tell them you will report them for fraud. Serious.
To whom I wonder? Amp power ratings are back to being a joke as they were in the sixties with all the instantaneous power BS. Here is an Amazon example.

AIYIMA A07 TPA3255 Power Amplifier 300Wx2 HiFi Class D Stereo Digital Audio Amp 2.0 Channel Amplifier​

Nowhere can one find the FTC required specs of continuous power for from 20 to 20K with a max distortion spec. Thankfully, the reputable makers still honor the rules and appropriate specs and can be found front and center. If I were one, I would send a harangue to the FTC in a NY minute. And of course, it's the uninitiated who are shortchanged. If only it were just the cheap junk. When it's a purportedly upscale brand like Hegel or Starke thet does it, that's encroaching into my domain! I will be buying in the near future a MCH Class D amp and as much as I may want a NAD or the equivalent, I need to save $$ buying from a maker who is maybe the new kid on the block. Maybe I get lucky as with Buckeye, or roll snake eyes and end up with this dreck. Some intervention is overdue IMO.
 

Dj7675

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That would be nice, and go a long way to show company strength, but with how Starke has so far responded, or not responded in most cases, yet continues to sell their equipment without concern, I think expecting them to do any kind of voluntary fix or replacement is a long shot. People are more likely stuck with equipment that does not perform as advertised. And Starke will continue to sell equipment that they, at least in part, know does not meet their advertised specs.

I would hope they would do the right thing... but who knows these days. I do hope that @Gene DellaSala will have Audioholics publish their review/measurements as well. If there are two different measurements/samples, and publish them both and use whatever influence they have on the manufacturer to make things right with customers that purchased amps that don't come close to the company published specs. These kinds of things are the great thing about ASR and Audioholics... to bring things like this to light.
 

audio_lover

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As I mentioned a few times in this thread already I have it as well and compared it to some Hypex gear (NC252MP and NC500 mono's) and it is really close in performance and SQ according to my ears!

But I also stated I'm in 230V territory and had to open my unit and flip the switches of both PSU's from 110V to 230V.
Now I'm just wondering, could this make a difference (double voltage times similar amperage equals double wattage in my book), or would all this 'extra' power just be burned up by some big power resistor and the output to the amp modules will be exactly equal?
If not, would @Gene DellaSala be able to measure the amp in 230V mode with a step up converter? Wondering if there is a big difference, if any at all?

I'm not looking to justify my purchase of it (as I have zero regrets!), I'm just wondering about it ;)
 

RichB

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I can only add that I am the one who is doing the review. At the time the preview was written, we didn’t have a product. Typically our previews have not been in actual products. The term referred to a simple retelling is the manufacturers claims. As you already noted, this product looked compelling on paper. It did to us as well. We had no reason to believe it would have measured so differently than the spec.

That preview was written long before I even knew I would be reviewing the amplifier. That point is important. We didn’t find out that the amp was intended as more of a utility amp until I asked about its design and performance for the review. They made clear that the Class D amp is meant more channels, like ATMOS, where ultimate fidelity isn’t necessary. I thought, ok that is disappointing but not a deal breaker. A $1200 amplifier that can do the atmos channels, is well made, and reliable would still be a useful product. That assumed it measured as specified. Amir’s review came out before I could even open mine. That didn’t bode well for the product. So I opened it to see if I would get similar or different results. Maybe he had a bad unit. Mine measured similar. So clearly something was wrong. Maybe the amplifier was built incorrectly relative to what was specified. I once tested an amplifier with a similar problem, it turned out the wrong transformer was used in a number of batches. The rails were half what they should have been. The spec sheet sent to the transformer manufacturer said 25v center tap toroidal 350va. What they got was 12.5v-0-12.5v but what they needed was 25v-0-25v. I have no idea what is going on here, but we agreed to wait for a new amplifier and see if it measures similarly. Maybe it’s similar and a wrong part was snuck in by a supplier. With foreign manufacturing it’s very common.
When the review is completed on the new amplifier, it is worth considering an editorial note. This would be of interest for current owners that may also have product with the "wrong transformer".

- Rich
 

Bobo77

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Matt,

That's not the issue. The issue is, that Audioholics keep the "GOTTA HAVE IT" review....it's listed under reviews, it's titled as a review, it's worded as a review....it was a review, even after you KNEW it was a broken design. You had @amirm review to show that it wasn't a fluke, either 2 units sent to 2 different reviewers for testing were damaged (in which case has Starke ever heard of QC), or the more believable case of......THEY LIED ABOUT THEIR NUMBERS. The fact that Starke has made ZERO attempts to rectify the issue, even going so far as to claim Amir's tests were flawed, knowing FULL WELL that you'd communicated similar issues to them shows exactly what type of person leads Starke. Not to mention they are STILL touting the unit on their social media sites, emails and Audioholics continue to use them as a revenue strain for ads and continue to review their other products while knowing full well that Starke is misleading consumers on other products. You know they aren't being truthful about the amp, you are a consumer advice magazine/website who is supposedly unbiased. You aren't forced to review their products, telling them you won't review other products until they act in an honest, truthful and upfront manner about the amp would be the ethical thing to do. I bought these amps based on the "Gotta Have It" review from your site, I was lied to then, we've all been lied to by Gene in this thread and your attempt to somehow justify the actions here only make me ask if we really should ever trust any review attached to your name (that's a fair call and you know it). If you, Gene and Audioholics are truly unbiased you'd call Starke out and push them to resolve the issue. Because so far I've asked twice and been blocked on both Instagram and Facebook by Starke.....that seem like the actions of an ethical company to you?
I am glad that others feel the way that I do. I am comfortable that I spoke out about this and find that others see the disparity here with Starke, Audioholics and I am also going to throw in Jay iyagi's YouTube Channel. Starke is paying him for advertising (Starke sponsored his most recent video -Buchardt s400 II Review-) …and Jay gave a "listening review", (which I find totally find "suspect" because his reviews are usually more balanced, including some downsides…but not on this one), that was soooooooo syrupy gushing that I smell a rat there as well.
Also, knowing that the unlabeled "preview" of this amp was listed clearly in the "review" section of Audioholics, Gene responds to my criticism by bullying me and talking down to me: ”If you don't realize that was a preview article and NOT a review, then I fear you may not fully appreciate a full report with measurements.", to attempt to make me look stupid and to diminish my assessment (which is spot-on).
I have this to say to GENE: You are disingenuous Gene, for talking to me in that manner with what you had presented and how I stated my case... Take responsibility! The only thing you are hurting by behaving in that manner is you own credibility.
Simple.
Thanks for the support here, guys.
 
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Billy Budapest

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I had never heard of Starke before this review. Is this a YouTuber-darling product?
 

Bobo77

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I had never heard of Starke before this review. Is this a YouTuber-darling product?
Hey Billy…
I am not sure…but yes, "I" did hear about it on YouTube, from someone who I considered a reliable reviewer who I follow…Jay iyagi… I was a little suspicious once before with him with a gushy review of an item…but his review on this was just over-the-top..So I decided to research this as I am in the market for an amp with some power…and this just seemed too good to be true. My research has shown me that yes, in fact…it is.
What bothers me…is people putting up a front that they are "this person" (fellow audiophile..just like me)…over time they gain your trust with that shtick…and then occasionally (I hope) obviously getting paid behind the scenes to fluff a product.
It's underhanded and cheap and a cheesy way to make a living…but hey…that’s how the world turns, right!?
 

Billy Budapest

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Hey Billy…
I am not sure…but yes, "I" did hear about it on YouTube, from someone who I considered a reliable reviewer who I follow…Jay iyagi… I was a little suspicious once before with him with a gushy review of an item…but his review on this was just over-the-top..So I decided to research this as I am in the market for an amp with some power…and this just seemed too good to be true. My research has shown me that yes, in fact…it is.
What bothers me…is people putting up a front that they are "this person" (fellow audiophile..just like me)…over time they gain your trust with that shtick…and then occasionally (I hope) obviously getting paid behind the scenes to fluff a product.
It's underhanded and cheap and a cheesy way to make a living…but hey…that’s how the world turns, right!?
I guess what I was asking is if this is another product that has come out of nowhere and lit YouTube on fire—like the Buchardt s400 or the Dutch & Dutch 8c—and become every reviewer’s darling.
 
G

Gene DellaSala

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I am glad that others feel the way that I do. I am comfortable that I spoke out about this and find that others see the disparity here with Starke, Audioholics and I am also going to throw in Jay iyagi's YouTube Channel. Starke is paying him for advertising (Starke sponsored his most recent video -Buchardt s400 II Review-) …and Jay gave a "listening review", (which I find totally find "suspect" because his reviews are usually more balanced, including some downsides…but not on this one), that was soooooooo syrupy gushing that I smell a rat there as well.
Also, knowing that the unlabeled "preview" of this amp was listed clearly in the "review" section of Audioholics, Gene responds to my criticism by bullying me and talking down to me: ”If you don't realize that was a preview article and NOT a review, then I fear you may not fully appreciate a full report with measurements.", to attempt to make me look stupid and to diminish my assessment (which is spot-on).
I have this to say to GENE: You are disingenuous Gene, for talking to me in that manner with what you had presented and how I stated my case... Take responsibility! The only thing you are hurting by behaving in that manner is you own credibility.
Simple.
Thanks for the support here, guys.
No offense but if you think my response is "bullying" you need to grow thicker skin. Really, bullying? God help us that we live in such a hurtfeelioma cancel culture society these days.

With that said, I spoke to Starke today and apparently our review unit has a 230V transformer similar to what Amir tested. They received a 4 or 5 units like this domestically and as a result have lower power output when used in 120V. They also offer a refund/return to anyone that is unsatisfied with their amp. To date, they've shipped 100 and have only had 1 return from what they are telling me. This isn't shocking considering they are a relatively new company and still establishing.

Now that we know the reason for the power issue, we await getting a new unit with the proper domestic transformer to retest and publish a full REVIEW, to followup on our preview article.

Google has changed the way it ranks content based on page title. I used to put "preview" in these articles but found catchy organic titles work much better. The breadcrumb trail has review in it bc our reviews and previews share a common folder. I am working with my web developer to create a breadcrumb trail that labels "preview" articles as such. This site is the only instance this has been an issue in our 22+ years of publishing but I understand the confusion and working on our end to improve that.
 

Schan1269

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Quick question to find out if Starke had a bad example...

Product sheet says it can pull a maximum of 1500 watts off the wall. Is there anywhere in the testing to confirm if it was able to pull that much off the wall?
 

Billy Budapest

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No offense but if you think my response is "bullying" you need to grow thicker skin. Really, bullying? God help us that we live in such a hurtfeelioma cancel culture society these days.

With that said, I spoke to Starke today and apparently our review unit has a 230V transformer similar to what Amir tested. They received a 4 or 5 units like this domestically and as a result have lower power output when used in 120V. They also offer a refund/return to anyone that is unsatisfied with their amp. To date, they've shipped 100 and have only had 1 return from what they are telling me. This isn't shocking considering they are a relatively new company and still establishing.

Now that we know the reason for the power issue, we await getting a new unit with the proper domestic transformer to retest and publish a full REVIEW, to followup on our preview article.

Google has changed the way it ranks content based on page title. I used to put "preview" in these articles but found catchy organic titles work much better. The breadcrumb trail has review in it bc our reviews and previews share a common folder. I am working with my web developer to create a breadcrumb trail that labels "preview" articles as such. This site is the only instance this has been an issue in our 22+ years of publishing but I understand the confusion and working on our end to improve that.
Definitely a reason for a re-test. However, it does not bode well for Starke’s quality control.
 

voodooless

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With that said, I spoke to Starke today and apparently our review unit has a 230V transformer similar to what Amir tested.
How can that be? The pictures of the innards clearly show a switch for 230/110V? It should be a simple check if that thing is set correctly, and if not, flip it.
 

Bobo77

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No offense but if you think my response is "bullying" you need to grow thicker skin. Really, bullying? God help us that we live in such a hurtfeelioma cancel culture society these days.

With that said, I spoke to Starke today and apparently our review unit has a 230V transformer similar to what Amir tested. They received a 4 or 5 units like this domestically and as a result have lower power output when used in 120V. They also offer a refund/return to anyone that is unsatisfied with their amp. To date, they've shipped 100 and have only had 1 return from what they are telling me. This isn't shocking considering they are a relatively new company and still establishing.

Now that we know the reason for the power issue, we await getting a new unit with the proper domestic transformer to retest and publish a full REVIEW, to followup on our preview article.

Google has changed the way it ranks content based on page title. I used to put "preview" in these articles but found catchy organic titles work much better. The breadcrumb trail has review in it bc our reviews and previews share a common folder. I am working with my web developer to create a breadcrumb trail that labels "preview" articles as such. This site is the only instance this has been an issue in our 22+ years of publishing but I understand the confusion and working on our end to improve that.You "bullied"
YES Gene…you "bullied" me, in your first letter. Your intent was offense.
....AND …you just did it again here. There is no mistaking it. Using popular negative phrases from angry conservative culture like "cancel culture" and "hurtfeelioma"? REALLY Gene? You embarrass yourself in front of decent people.
I do have thick skin…that is what I use to stand up to people who act like you.
…but hey…BULLY for me…and my fellow consumers. Looks like I shamed you into doing what you should have done months ago if you actually care about your readers.
Maybe you should grow up, Gene…and act like an adult. :)
 
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JRS

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YES Gene…you "bullied" me, in your first letter.
....AND …you just did it again here. There is no mistaking it. Using popular negative phrases from angry conservative culture like "cancel culture" and "hurtfeelioma"? REALLY Gene? You embarrass yourself in front of decent people.
I do have thick skin…that is what I use to stand up to people who act like you.
…but hey…BULLY for me…and my fellow consumers. Looks like I shamed you into doing what you should have done months ago if you actually care about your readers.
Maybe you should grow up, Gene…and act like an adult. :)
I also found that offensive, and lost a huge amount to respect for the site, which I previously held in high esteem based on the no nonsense, technical talk oriented reviews of strong products. I also appreciated the interviews of leaders in the audio fields and the deep discussions of engineering that the other channels won't touch. I am somewhat as a loss for now bbut am also skeptical of the transformer story given voodooless@ observation.

Certainly I will never touch a Starke product going forward--there are several "manufacturers" that offer similarly priced units that actually meet/exceed specs. Buckeye is one, who not only is responsive to feedback, but solicits it from readers in his quest to make a first class product at a great price.
 
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Bobo77

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YES Gene…you "bullied" me, in your first letter.
....AND …you just did it again here. There is no mistaking it. Using popular negative phrases from angry conservative culture like "cancel culture" and "hurtfeelioma"?REALLY Gene? You embarrass yourself in front of decent people.
I do have thick skin…that is what I use to stand up to people who act like you.
…but hey…BULLY for me…and my fellow consumers. Looks like I shamed you into doing what you should have done months ago if you actually care about your readers.
Maybe you should Grow up, Gene…and act like an adult.
I guess what I was asking is if this is another product that has come out of nowhere and lit YouTube on fire—like the Buchardt s400 or the Dutch & Dutch 8c—and become every reviewer’s darling.
I have not heard of The Dutch and Dutch 8c? What product is that?
So…I could be brainwashed from the reviews of the s400s. LOL.
Have you listened to either version of The Buchardts? I thought that they were legit…I have never actually heard them. I have read nothing bad about them.
They do offer a trial period, though.
Edit: just looked-up, very breifly…The Dutch & Dutch 8c. OK..I know little, but that looks absurdly expensive for what it is!. Obviously similar in design to the Buchardts..but more than 6x the price. It's a powered speaker with more drivers…but still seems way overpriced. Would love to be able to listen to both. I am open minded.
 
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