• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Starke Sound AD4.320 Amp Review (Sample 2)

Rate this amplifier:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 242 94.5%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 6 2.3%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 1 0.4%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 7 2.7%

  • Total voters
    256
Joined
Feb 13, 2022
Messages
5
Likes
1
I reviewed and measured the Starke Sound AD4.320 multichannel amplifier a few months ago. This is the measurements of a second sample kindly sent in by a member.
View attachment 180360

The first sample missed its power by a factor of two. Company disputed this and promised their own measurements that would show otherwise. This did not materialize. We did find out that the review sample received by Audioholics had similar power shortfall to my (new) sample. Explanation given through Audioholics was that a few samples had miswired power supplies rated for 240 instead of 120. This was puzzling as the unit has a switch for such selection internally. I have not heard of any new results by Audioholics but a member sent me his unit for measurement so let's see how it does.

Starke Sound AD4.320 Measurements (Sample #2)
I am only going to post abbreviated measurements to verify whether this sample is any different. Let's start with our dashboard:

View attachment 180362

While the nature of power supply noise and to small extend distortion spectrum is different, overall SINAD matches the same as the last unit. So at 5 watts into 4 ohm, the two units match. Key though is to see how much power we have. Let's start with 4 ohm:

View attachment 180363
Well, we have the same results and massive shortfall relative to 320 watt spec as I have copied into the graph from their website. Allowing for 1% distortion again produces similar results to sample 1:

View attachment 180364

Same story with 8 ohm:

View attachment 180365
64 watts vs specifications of 225 watts and I am only driving two channels instead of four they claim.

I decided to test just one channel to rule out power supply capacity issue:

View attachment 180366

We get a bit more power but still less than half of the company spec. So supply capacity is not an issue.

As to demystify power measurements, here is our dashboard again, this time measuring the unit with 160 watts out:
View attachment 180368

We easily see that the sinewave is clipping so the amplifier is beyond its capability.

Conclusions
As I think all of us predicted, this amplifier simply cannot produce its rated power. Somewhere from inception to what they are shipping, the design has changed to produce far less power. Customers sadly though, have been buying these amps thinking this amplifier produces 4 times 320 watts which it can't remotely do. Company needs to step up and be transparent about the issue here. Owners and I should not be saddled with continuing to spend money and resources to test their products. It only makes things worse for them.

I can't recommend buying this amplifier or any product from Starke Sound. You can't promise people one gallon of milk but put half as much in the jug....

-----------
As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Any donations are much appreciated using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/
Sounds like my lowly Sony STR-DH190 has more usable power?
 

Wk19821982-av

New Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2022
Messages
1
Likes
0
I can tell you that STARKESOUND's products are very poor. I have used its flagship speaker H5 and flagship amplifier A7II. High price and low performance! Later, I replaced it with Revel F228be and ATI6007, and the sound quality was obviously improved. The price was also much cheaper. The reputation of this brand in China is very bad. They are all sold to newcomers who don't care about audio and video through the Internet! The price is also very high! It is recommended to stay away from it!
 

Soundlover

Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2022
Messages
14
Likes
5
So there was no government intervention or prosecution or penalties? Just market rejection? What sort of false advertising specifically? Seems they may have a history of stretching their claims - which might warrant closer scrutiny.
Most of the starke customers don't know that they have been cheated and taking legal proceedings is time-consuming and laborious.
10 inch Starke subwoofer can down to 16.52hz -3db。WOW!
 

Attachments

  • 微信图片_20220214032226.jpg
    微信图片_20220214032226.jpg
    138.7 KB · Views: 116
  • 微信图片_20220214033057.jpg
    微信图片_20220214033057.jpg
    193 KB · Views: 100
  • 微信图片_20220214033102.jpg
    微信图片_20220214033102.jpg
    193.5 KB · Views: 104
  • 微信图片_20220214033105.jpg
    微信图片_20220214033105.jpg
    186 KB · Views: 104

Soundlover

Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2022
Messages
14
Likes
5
Yosemine‘s announcement!They finally admitted that Qing is Starke‘s shareholder. WOW what a big differents between owner and shareholder!
Check out the test report they did and users still found out they are cheating!

 

Attachments

  • 微信图片_20220215010831.png
    微信图片_20220215010831.png
    121.3 KB · Views: 120
  • 微信图片_20220215010828.png
    微信图片_20220215010828.png
    121.8 KB · Views: 133
  • 微信图片_20220215010825.png
    微信图片_20220215010825.png
    47.6 KB · Views: 124
  • 微信图片_20220215010804.png
    微信图片_20220215010804.png
    52.5 KB · Views: 126
  • 微信图片_20220215010848.png
    微信图片_20220215010848.png
    118.6 KB · Views: 118
  • 微信图片_20220215010845.png
    微信图片_20220215010845.png
    120.6 KB · Views: 114
  • 微信图片_20220215010842.png
    微信图片_20220215010842.png
    95 KB · Views: 120
  • 微信图片_20220215010838.png
    微信图片_20220215010838.png
    40.5 KB · Views: 130
  • 微信图片_20220215010835.png
    微信图片_20220215010835.png
    46.6 KB · Views: 129
  • tmp_f86d4a828f81d8b8cfaa8d6b783a420b75353972b90b1fef.pdf
    515.7 KB · Views: 66

nstzya

Active Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2021
Messages
216
Likes
164
A lot to unpack there, but the translated section in blue and particularly the section in red is where to focus attention. I seem to recall that it was Starke who were unresponsive, not Amir. And can anyone comment on the testing that they are showing here?

Soundlover, where is this coming from?
 
OP
amirm

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
44,370
Likes
234,434
Location
Seattle Area
I was never contacted. Maybe their message got lost in junk folder or something in which case, why didn't they register and post in the forum? I am *always* responsive to manufacturers reaching out to me regardless of outcome.

As to their measurements, they are not replicating any of my tests. If they want to show different results, they need to do that, not run different set of tests using different protocol.

I also don't know of any outreach to owners to recall the product.
 

nstzya

Active Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2021
Messages
216
Likes
164
As some might recall, Starke registered and made a single post (post #231 in part 1 back on Dec 3, 2021), but has thus far not had any further interaction:

Message from the manufacturer: When this article was first posted it was brought to our attention. We were taken aback by the aggressive commentary on this site and it seemed that having a constructive discourse would not be possible, so we have refrained from responding until now. We are of course disappointed with the author’s measurements and a bit puzzled at how exactly he arrived at those conclusions. We have no idea where the author received this unit from, if it had been altered or damaged, and no script was provided in which we could use to accurately replicate his testing methods. In addition, the author did not reach out to us for comment or ask to provide a second unit for comparison. Our current policy is that if anyone is not satisfied with the power output for any reason we’ll promptly provide return shipping and a full refund. As of now out of all the units sold we’ve had only 3 units returned in this manner. This will be our only statement.

To my knowledge, there has still been no formal or official announcement on their website or in the US market - either of this newest announcement made in the Chinese market, or of the announcement made here in this quoted post. So how would a US owner know unless they happened to come to this site??

I'd also be curious how many units they are up to now.

What do people think about the announcement that in the Chinese market, there will be no general refund offer, but they will offer to test the unit to make sure it meets power specs and return it? :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
OP
amirm

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
44,370
Likes
234,434
Location
Seattle Area
I forgot that statement. Thanks for posting it. Interesting that nothing was mentioned as far as incorrect transformer in some units. Instead, they put all the blame on me.
 

Soundlover

Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2022
Messages
14
Likes
5
A lot to unpack there, but the translated section in blue and particularly the section in red is where to focus attention. I seem to recall that it was Starke who were unresponsive, not Amir. And can anyone comment on the testing that they are showing here?

Soundlover, where is this coming from?
From their official Wechat account。I did the Google translation!
 

Soundlover

Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2022
Messages
14
Likes
5
As many will recall, Starke registered and made a single post (post #231 in part 1 back on Dec 3, 2021), thus far refusing any further interaction or announcement:



To my knowledge, there has still been no announcement on their website or in the US market.

What do people think about the announcement that in the Chinese market, there will be no general refund offer, but they will offer to test the unit to make sure it meets power specs and return it?
Why?The only reason is Yosemite is the real owner.
 

Walter

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Aug 25, 2020
Messages
856
Likes
1,242
#6, outlined in red, while only specifying THD, almost exactly matches Amir's measurements of 103 Watts @ 4 ohms with SINAD in the low 70dBs. The 8 ohm 1% power is also similar, although 4 ohm is badly short. So at least some of the fine print was truthful. Their new motto can be, "At least we're more honest than Carver!"

Edit: Except for the discrepancy in 4 ohm 1% power, this sounds like a case of engineers providing honest specs and the marketing department just seizing upon the gaudiest number and promoting that.
 
Last edited:

nstzya

Active Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2021
Messages
216
Likes
164
Soundlover, are these tabulated figures in red (#6, etc) the results of the promised new "independent testing"?

I am no EE, so can't comment on whether what they have produced constitutes "independent testing" or is enough proof thereof. The 100W/4Ohm listed does come remarkably close to Amir's testing, but note that Amir still did not get anywhere near their 10% distortion "test" figures. Amir still only got 160W @ 13%THD @4 ohms!

For sake of discussion, let's assume that this tabulation of values is being presented as the promised "independent testing" and as evidence that they in fact do meet their specs (albeit hardly audiophile at 10% THD!). Then why all the diversionary talk about miswired transformers, serial numbers, etc. as explanation for "low output"?

IMHO, this may be why any such mention of transformer miswiring did not appear in their statement here. They did not want to "put it in writing" anywhere in the US. It's easy to suppose...or create doubt... or propose the possibility - all currently in vogue. Proof? That's another thing. But once it's on the internet, and repeated enough, it becomes accepted as "fact". Just as all the favorable reviews became "fact" once repeated enough.

I think it's the wild west (or wild east as one would have it) in the Chinese market - where wild claims and equally wild promoters can get away with exaggerated claims. Regulations are lax - unlike in the US. Look at copyright and patent enforcement in China. We've already been through this in the US and regulated in the 1970's. And let's not forget that the head of marketing for Starke is the Chinese owner of Yosemine, and by extension at least partial (and possibly full and/or majority) owner of Starke.

Again, I suggest people file a complaint with the FTC if they want something productive to come from their trouble this.
 
Last edited:

KSTR

Major Contributor
Joined
Sep 6, 2018
Messages
2,690
Likes
6,013
Location
Berlin, Germany
What has happened might have been the following:
Starke Managing Dept. to engineer: "Give us the largest power rating we can possible use for puplishing"
Engineer goes ahead and measures maximum (peak) output voltage of a channel with no load, then P=U²/R, "forgetting" the 0.5x factor for sine correction.
This, combined with the also "forgotten" power supply voltage sag under load then translates amazingly exactly to what Amir has measured, I did the math:
Upk=sqrt(P*R) = sqrt(320*4) = 35V. Thats the unloaded peak voltage, reconstructed from the specs.
Amir got 103W@4R: Urms = sqrt(103*4) = 20.3V --> Upk = 29V (that aprox. value was also shown on a plot with clipped output that I can't find anymore)
And 63.5W@8R --> Upk = 32V.
29--32--35, a clean 3V step sequence ==> twice the current, twice the voltage drop in the supply. Circumstancial evidence for the hypothesis ;-)

EDIT: A miswired transformer would give about the same result. Half the supply voltage means 1/4th of available power but as the supply impedance now is a bit lower, a bit more can be coaxed out as the sag is less severe. Because supply voltage factors in in a squared fashion, just a bit more of it give much larger percentage variation in measured power. The difference, 103W vs 80W just seems to fit IMV.
 
Last edited:

nstzya

Active Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2021
Messages
216
Likes
164
But unless I am misunderstanding the testing specs, they are not claiming miswired transformer with those #6, #5 figures, etc. If those are in fact independent testing figures, it appears that they are presenting them as proof that they meet spec (in bizarro world). Of course, where did they come from? They certainly do not agree with Amir's results.

Regardless, at best they have violated FTC regulations in doing what your analysis suggests, KSTR. Those regulations are in place to prevent exactly such misrepresentation and exageration.
 
Last edited:

Soundlover

Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2022
Messages
14
Likes
5
Soundlover, are these tabulated figures in red (#6, etc) the results of the promised new "independent testing"?

I am no EE, so can't comment on whether what they have produced constitutes "independent testing" or is enough proof thereof. The 100W/4Ohm listed does come remarkably close to Amir's testing, but note that Amir still did not get anywhere near their 10% distortion "test" figures. Amir still only got 160W @ 13%THD @4 ohms!

For sake of discussion, let's assume that this tabulation of values is being presented as the promised "independent testing" and as evidence that they in fact do meet their specs (albeit hardly audiophile at 10% THD!). Then why all the diversionary talk about miswired transformers, serial numbers, etc. as explanation for "low output"?

IMHO, this may be why any such mention of transformer miswiring did not appear in their statement here. They did not want to "put it in writing" anywhere in the US. It's easy to suppose...or create doubt... or propose the possibility - all currently in vogue. Proof? That's another thing. But once it's on the internet, and repeated enough, it becomes accepted as "fact". Just as all the favorable reviews became "fact" once repeated enough.

I think it's the wild west (or wild east as one would have it) in the Chinese market - where wild claims and equally wild promoters can get away with exaggerated claims. Regulations are lax - unlike in the US. Look at copyright and patent enforcement in China. We've already been through this in the US and regulated in the 1970's. And let's not forget that the head of marketing for Starke is the Chinese owner of Yosemine, and by extension at least partial (and possibly full and/or majority) owner of Starke.

Again, I suggest people file a complaint with the FTC if they want something productive to come from their trouble this.
Totally agree!
Yes,those tabulated figures in red are all came from their new "independent test report"
 

Attachments

  • tmp_f86d4a828f81d8b8cfaa8d6b783a420b75353972b90b1fef.pdf
    515.7 KB · Views: 70
OP
amirm

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
44,370
Likes
234,434
Location
Seattle Area
While we focused on power level in this product, it is amazing that they convinced so many people that this is a class D amp that doesn't sound like one! Review after review seemed to buy this line. So on that front, very successful audio marketing.
 

nstzya

Active Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2021
Messages
216
Likes
164
Totally agree!
Yes,those tabulated figures in red are all came from their new "independent test report"

I see no testing company specified anywhere. Does that appear anywhere in Chinese, Soundlover? Who did the "independent testing"?
 

whazzup

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Feb 19, 2020
Messages
575
Likes
486
I see no testing company specified anywhere. Does that appear anywhere in Chinese, Soundlover? Who did the "independent testing"?

The article does not state the company that did the testing.
Only the mention of '3rd party state level / state approved testing facilities' (paraphrased). Just believe them, ok? And bad, bad Amir for not replying to their earnest objections and attempts to communicate ;)
 
Top Bottom