Starke Sound AD4.320 Amp Review (Sample 2)

[nstzya]

has it been sold out before the tests? https://shop.starkesound.com/collections/amplifiers/products/starke-sound-ad4-amplifier

Dunno, perhaps they halted new sales? If you have followed the entire saga, including over at Audioholics, you know that they have a “new shipment” of corrected units on the way - one of which they will be sending Audioholics for retest.

But they ARE re-selling all the returned units:

B Stock | Starke Sound

Great Gear at Great Prices on Starke Sound Speakers, Amplifiers, and Subwoofers! B-Stock!

shop.starkesound.com

Would be interesting to see how this B stock tests - whether they have been refurbished/fixed in some way. Otherwise, it would indicate intentional fraud misrepresentation.

 

[nstzya]

As much as I like my AD4 (I really do!) I think I'll return it anyway, can no longer justify this

Seems like they have also release an AD8 in the mean time:

Product Details

www.starkesound.com

I am glad you are returning yours. Please let us know how the return process goes - particularly whether they cover your return shipping.

Now who is brave enough to have one of these AD8’s drop shipped to Amir? I’ve already told the story of how I attempted to do that with one of these AD4 about a year ago, but was met with resistance from the president of the company. Perhaps this is why? Notice the distortion specs on the power ratings of the AD8 - something absent on the AD4 specs as I recall.

 

[Dennis_FL]

Dunno, perhaps they halted new sales? If you have followed the entire saga, including over at Audioholics, you know that they have a “new shipment” of corrected units on the way - one of which they will be sending Audioholics for retest.

But they ARE re-selling all the returned units:

B Stock | Starke Sound

Great Gear at Great Prices on Starke Sound Speakers, Amplifiers, and Subwoofers! B-Stock!

shop.starkesound.com

Would be interesting to see how this B stock tests - whether they have been refurbished/fixed in some way. Otherwise, it would indicate intentional fraud.

I for one am taking Amir’s advice

I can't recommend buying this amplifier or any product from Starke Sound.

 

[nstzya]

Thats just Topping and SMSL then

Schiit is a good example of how a company can rehabilitate their reputation.

 

[audio_lover]

I am glad you are returning yours. Please let us know how the return process goes - particularly whether they cover your return shipping.

Now who is brave enough to have one of these AD8’s drop shipped to Amir? I’ve already told the story of how I attempted to do that with one of these AD4 about a year ago, but was met with resistance from the president of the company. Perhaps this is why? Notice the distortion specs on the power ratings of the AD8 - something absent on the AD4 specs as I recall.

Sent them an email this morning asking for it, let's see how they reply to it.
Pretty sure they won't reimburse the import taxes I had to pay in my country, but asked it anyway but willing to take a loss on it

 

[ebslo]

Yes, no false claims there at all, it says what it says. The president of Starke may be confused himself but at least they don't lie in their specs. There are no standardized way to power specs unfortunately, it has been like this forever, its not a new thing.

Maybe not a "standard" but in the U.S.A. (where Starke is based) there has been an FTC regulation since 1974.

 

[nstzya]

That's what it sounds like! This way they can simultaneously be misleading but also technically correct.

After all, it's the stupid customer's fault for misinterpreting their measurements, right?

Here's their spec for the $9000 top of the line 2-channel amp:

• Output Power
• 640W RMS x 2 at 4Ω
• 320W RMS x 2 at 8Ω
• ClassA power 65W at 2Ω, 4Ω, 8Ω

They specifically state per channel here. Funny, that.

But notice that none of these specs include @% distortion. Notably (and presumably due to this very issue with the AD4) the new AD8 specs at 10% distortion

 

[nstzya]

@amirm if you are allowed can you open the unit and check to see if the mains voltage switch is set correctly (117VAC). After all this has been the standard excuse given on the web why the measurements are wrong. It will be nice if that excuse was to be eliminated, especially now that you tested two samples.

I quote this for emphasis and second it. Provided the owner will allow it and Amir still has the unit. That would eliminate a huge variable.

 

[PeteL]

Maybe I am reading specifications incorrectly, but it seems they are:

430 W RMS at 4 Ohms - 2 Channel
320 W RMS at 4 Ohms - 4 Channel

So if these are total output power, then total output power decreases with the number of channels driven.

your 2 channel value is in bridge mode.

 

[sarumbear]

But notice that none of these specs include @% distortion. Notably (and presumably due to this very issue with the AD4) the new AD8 specs at 10% distortion

An 8-ch amplifier is not exactly a run-of-the-mill consumer device is it? You are either a professional installer or an informed audiophile who can build a home theatre for themselves. If anyone buys an 8-ch power amplifier specified at 10% distortion, can we say that they deserve it?

 

[ROOSKIE]

Starke, was starting to develop a pretty good reputation and the company was growing.
They did not need to overstate these specs to sell amps.
What as shame as they had to know someone would measure them.
There are many folks with equipment capable of doing basic amp testing.
Not just ASR.

So strange they tried this and if it is truly a mistake so strange how they have not addressed this in way that can rebuild trust.

It will be interesting to see what comes next.
In the meantime they did this to themselves.

Some of the speakers they make do look interesting and have some nicer reviews in print.
I see some claims that they make their own drivers in house. I wonder if that is also an exaggeration?

 

[JoeBrooklyn]

Is there a lying panther?

 

[ROOSKIE]

Is there a lying panther?

Dress him up like a politician or a used car salesman, or maybe someone from Audioquest (Sorry in advance if you are the rare one who earns your personal living doing either task honestly)

 

[sarumbear]

It will be interesting to see what comes next.

Thanks to @nstzya we know what comes next. Increase the distortion specification to 10% so that they may not technically be lying.

In the meantime they did this to themselves.

and they keep doing it...A thoroughly despicable behaviour.

 

[AdamG]

Not for nothing but this represents the third sample to test far below advertised specs. I think that is sufficient for the Panther raiding the piggy bank!

Thanks Amir for confirming what your first test demonstrated. Not only severely underperforming power capability but crappy SINAD on top. This is the stuff that we are all here for. Saving us money one review at a time.

 

[nstzya]

Thanks to @nstzya we know what comes next. Increase the distortion specification to 10% so that they may not technically be lying.

Notice Amir only got 160 Watts @ 11%. I assume that was at 4 ohms. They don’t even meet it at 10%.

 

[levimax]

But notice that none of these specs include @% distortion. Notably (and presumably due to this very issue with the AD4) the new AD8 specs at 10% distortion

Amir testing this amp at 160 watts into 8 ohms which showed clipping and a SINAD of 19 which is ~11% distortion. This is still a long way from 225 watts @10% distortion.

 

[nstzya]

Starke, was starting to develop a pretty good reputation and the company was growing.
They did not need to overstate these specs to sell amps…

One has to suspect now that ALL their amps might be overstated. By how much? Anyone else really curious how their others will test?

…Some of the speakers they make do look interesting and have some nicer reviews in print.

Yes, as did THIS amp (as well as in video).

It’s all reminiscent of the Audi/VW diesel thing. Tip of the iceberg?

 

[nstzya]

Maybe not a "standard" but in the U.S.A. (where Starke is based) there has been an FTC regulation since 1974.

And such regulations state:

“(b) In addition, whenever any direct or indirect representation is made of the power output, power band or power frequency response, or distortion characteristics of sound power amplification equipment in any product brochure or manufacturer specification sheet, the following disclosures also shall be made clearly, conspicuously, and more prominently than any other representations or disclosures permitted under this part:

(1) The manufacturer's rated power band or power frequency response, in Hertz (Hz), for the rated power output required to be disclosed in paragraph (a) of this section; and
(2) The manufacturer's rated percentage of maximum total harmonic distortion at any power level from 250 mW to the rated power output, and its corresponding rated power band or power frequency response.”


Here is where and how to file a complaint for any current owners so inclined:

Report Fraud

Protect your community by reporting fraud, scams, and bad business practices

reportfraud.ftc.gov

I’d like to hold their feet to the fire on this and would file the complaint myself, but it appears you must be an owner. Perhaps they will look into their other products as well…

(FYI, those outside the US also appear to be able to file complaints)

 

[gorb]

Yikes. Thanks for taking the time to test a second sample.