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Star Wars: Andor (TV)

Sal1950 said:
Well if you think good story writing is a bedtime story for adults, then Andor is great. LOL
Let's write over half a season planing a borring jail break, or
Let's write a whole eppisode around begging some dumb women to leave with you as the storm troppers are breaking down the doors ???
Not even showing some common sense there, Just filling the page-screen-time with useless words.
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Yeah Andor is slow and takes it time which requires a larger attention span which grownups tend to have compared to a child, but this slow burn will pay of immencly in the end compared than if you go into the action directly from the start. Build ups are important! Also the story in Andor is more complex with more character depth which is easier to follow for grownups, but despite it's complexity it's tighter written with less obvious plot holes and stupidity than stuff like all the other Disney SW shows.
For example in BoBF they say early on that they don't want to fight among civilians (and that despite him wanting to a "crime lord" even though he's not being that at all, lol), yet in the end they draw them in there in the end instead of staying in the palace and together with that rancor destroys half the city center.
Or in Kenobi where there are three grownups that have really stupid problems catching a little five year old girl and it really looks like something taking from a childrens movie, the same as when they can't get through a laser gate despite it being clearly open to the sides, or get Leia from that prison an hides her under a robe..... It can't be a grownup that wrote that. It can't be!
And a great example of really bad storytelling is when you get two whole episodes of Mandalorian in the middle of BoBF, it's just so extremely weird, especially since it's about that little merch seller Grogu that comes back for no apparent reason except for that merch selling.

Unclear which scene you mean where they are begging some dumb women and there are storm trooper breaking down a door, but there really aren't many dumb women in Andor at all, lots of strong well written women in there, with Kleya being one of the favourites!
And you missed what half that jail break story was about, it was showing how bad and ruthless the Empire is while at the same time giving us some really well written character arcs. For example having Kino Loy changing his mind after just ten minutes instead of after three episodes wouldn't have made it nearly half as interesting and rewarding. Change takes time, which is why Andor feels so much more grounded and compelling to many many people.
 
Tell said:
Unclear which scene you mean where they are begging some dumb women and there are storm trooper breaking down a door, but there really aren't many dumb women in Andor at all, lots of strong well written women in there, with Kleya being one of the favourites!
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LOL, if you don't know you must not be watching it, only flapping your jaw.
Season 2, Episode 11. Not a gender issue but dumb when she refuses to leave as she has only a short time before they would have cut her head off.
 
Here's some good stuff. ;)
 
Tell said:
Yeah Andor is slow and takes it time which requires a larger attention span which grownups tend to have compared to a child, but this slow burn will pay of immencly in the end compared than if you go into the action directly from the start. Build ups are important! Also the story in Andor is more complex with more character depth which is easier to follow for grownups, but despite it's complexity it's tighter written with less obvious plot holes and stupidity than stuff like all the other Disney SW shows.
For example in BoBF they say early on that they don't want to fight among civilians (and that despite him wanting to a "crime lord" even though he's not being that at all, lol), yet in the end they draw them in there in the end instead of staying in the palace and together with that rancor destroys half the city center.
Or in Kenobi where there are three grownups that have really stupid problems catching a little five year old girl and it really looks like something taking from a childrens movie, the same as when they can't get through a laser gate despite it being clearly open to the sides, or get Leia from that prison an hides her under a robe..... It can't be a grownup that wrote that. It can't be!
And a great example of really bad storytelling is when you get two whole episodes of Mandalorian in the middle of BoBF, it's just so extremely weird, especially since it's about that little merch seller Grogu that comes back for no apparent reason except for that merch selling.

Unclear which scene you mean where they are begging some dumb women and there are storm trooper breaking down a door, but there really aren't many dumb women in Andor at all, lots of strong well written women in there, with Kleya being one of the favourites!
And you missed what half that jail break story was about, it was showing how bad and ruthless the Empire is while at the same time giving us some really well written character arcs. For example having Kino Loy changing his mind after just ten minutes instead of after three episodes wouldn't have made it nearly half as interesting and rewarding. Change takes time, which is why Andor feels so much more grounded and compelling to many many people.
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I would have preferred Andor taking more time to watch. I would have preferred a year per season. Season 1 was BBY 5 and I felt very well done. Season 2 was BBY 4-1 with three episodes per year. They skipped a lot of time with the third, sixth and ninth episodes starting with the tag "A year later." It was lazy writing on their part. They could have provided so much more back story. I would have preferred a slower burn.

Martin
 
Martin said:
I would have preferred Andor taking more time to watch. I would have preferred a year per season. Season 1 was BBY 5 and I felt very well done. Season 2 was BBY 4-1 with three episodes per year. They skipped a lot of time with the third, sixth and ninth episodes starting with the tag "A year later." It was lazy writing on their part. They could have provided so much more back story. I would have preferred a slower burn.

Martin
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Guess Disney ran out of money for digital de-ageing.

Tony Gilroy says ‘ANDOR’ was going to have 5 seasons: “We realized that I didn't have enough calories to do it, and Diego's face couldn't take the timing, because it just takes too long to make it.”

But, yeah, they should have done 3 seasons...
 
Sal1950 said:
LOL, if you don't know you must not be watching it, only flapping your jaw.
Season 2, Episode 11. Not a gender issue but dumb when she refuses to leave as she has only a short time before they would have cut her head off.
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Thing is that the door was open so there was no breaking, that's why it was unclear what you ment ;) And if you don't get why she didn't want to peave you clearly wasn't paying attention.

Martin said:
I would have preferred Andor taking more time to watch. I would have preferred a year per season. Season 1 was BBY 5 and I felt very well done. Season 2 was BBY 4-1 with three episodes per year. They skipped a lot of time with the third, sixth and ninth episodes starting with the tag "A year later." It was lazy writing on their part. They could have provided so much more back story. I would have preferred a slower burn.

Martin
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Yeah I would have loved one more season but no more than that, I don't like when series drag out for to many years, especially when there's always a risk that it goes down after a while (looking at you Game of Thrones).
 
Tell said:
Thing is that the door was open so there was no breaking, that's why it was unclear what you ment ;) And if you don't get why she didn't want to peave you clearly wasn't paying attention.
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Uh hun, it's my fault just about a whole episode was wasted on that dumb unrealistic behavior, not the writers. :facepalm:
 
Sal1950 said:
Uh hun, it's my fault just about a whole episode was wasted on that dumb unrealistic behavior, not the writers. :facepalm:
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Again, you weren't paying attention. She knew that many people on Yavin never liked Luthen and his methods (which very much where hers as well) so she thought that she would be hated there and would have no place at all and that it would be better if she continued working in the shadows. Also being in the kind of chock she where in after just loosing her "father" didn't really help her reasoning either.
 
Tell said:
She knew that many people on Yavin never liked Luthen and his methods (which very much where hers as well) so she thought that she would be hated there and would have no place at all and that it would be better if she continued working in the shadows.
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Frankly I also find this whole scene strange, although I'm not so vehement about it :-)
I mean, surely there are dozen of places safer than Curosant and other than Yavin, where they could leave her if she didn't want to come to Yavin.

Tell said:
Also being in the kind of chock she where in after just loosing her "father" didn't really help her reasoning either.
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And that's on the guys. Instead of discussing anything, they should just tell her "Let's go now! Later, when we are safe, you can decide what you want to do".
 
FrantzM said:
In Andor, heroes are not all good angelic, all-powerful individuals, rather people, with all their flaws, warts et al ...
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That is the point.

Andor is good, but it's not what Star Wars has been about and what you expect.
For me, Star Wars is space opera with a bit of wit and a very clear distinction from the garbage of everyday life.
Do you want to see Princess Leia filling the dishwasher? Darth Vader struggling to clean his butt?

Andor is far too psychodramatic and dystopian for Star Wars in a way that is too real for me.

If I want to see Huxley and Orwell, I'll watch the corresponding movies, with Star Wars I expect a bit of the light-hearted Lucas feeling.
 
Chagall said:
Guess Disney ran out of money for digital de-ageing.

Tony Gilroy says ‘ANDOR’ was going to have 5 seasons: “We realized that I didn't have enough calories to do it, and Diego's face couldn't take the timing, because it just takes too long to make it.”

But, yeah, they should have done 3 seasons...
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I re-watched Rogue One after Andor S2 and *every* actor looks very different time traveling 10 years in the past.

The WGA and SAG-AFTRA strike also added complexity to the scheduling for season 3.

There is a risk that they would have burnt themselves out and been unable to hold onto the level of storytelling that S1 and S2 could achieve.

For what it’s worth, Skeleton Crew was very fun. That’s your fun-and-games Star Wars. It had one of the worst trailers but was a lot of fun. Contrast to Acolyte which had a great trailer and horrible execution…
 
Audionaut said:
For me, Star Wars is space opera with a bit of wit and a very clear distinction from the garbage of everyday life.
Do you want to see Princess Leia filling the dishwasher? Darth Vader struggling to clean his butt?

Andor is far too psychodramatic and dystopian for Star Wars in a way that is too real for me.

If I want to see Huxley and Orwell, I'll watch the corresponding movies, with Star Wars I expect a bit of the light-hearted Lucas feeling.
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this is a bit melodramatic

have we seen a single toilet in SW or Star Trek?

I think the original 1977-1983 already had a lot of darkness... didnt they blast billions to death on alderaan?

wasnt there slavery and all kinds of drug use and contraband on tattoine mos eisley?

people dont want 'politics' in their star trek or whatever and in reality wasnt kirk kissing a black woman back before many of us were born

i'd argue that people are seeing reflections of society and nay themselves in modern drama and they're getting uncomfortable

the same mob who love Born in the USA or Fortunate Son but dont want to delve into the lyrics...yeah i wonder...

btw. Lucas sold out 10yrs ago and I beleive he's still executive producer on a lot of this stuff - he's ok with this trajectory, some 'fans' arent though

here's the thing... i was a kid when the 1977-1983 stuff came out - i'm not a kid any more... the fanbase are largely not kids... hell their kids are having kids and so i would guess making some simplistic story where its "good guys save the princess and vanquish the bad guy" isnt likely to poll well with people who are no longer... "kids"....
 
TonyJZX said:
here's the thing... i was a kid when the 1977-1983 stuff came out - i'm not a kid any more... the fanbase are largely not kids... hell their kids are having kids and so i would guess making some simplistic story where its "good guys save the princess and vanquish the bad guy" isnt likely to poll well with people who are no longer... "kids"....
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Exactly! Are the rebels going to fight the Empire for another 50 years? Will “somehow Palpatine returned” become the norm? Will we get an even bigger Death Star next time?
It’s stale and has all the narrative depth of Wile E. Coyote chasing the Roadrunner. Star Wars needs more of the grey that Andor brings, and better stories across the board.

Also, with streaming services and theatrical releases, there’s more than enough room for both PG-rated adventures and something a bit grittier. It doesn’t have to be either/or - it just has to be well-written.
 
Chagall said:
Star Wars needs more of the grey that Andor brings, and better stories across the board.
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Sure. put the entire Sci Fi fanbase to sleep with crap like Andor. :facepalm:
 
TonyJZX said:
have we seen a single toilet in SW or Star Trek?
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Yes, but that's not the Point

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TonyJZX said:
this is a bit melodramatic
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You are confusing cause and effect: Andor is melodramatic, my perception of it is only a reflection of the content.

TonyJZX said:
i'd argue that people are seeing reflections of society and nay themselves in modern drama and they're getting uncomfortable
the same mob who love Born in the USA or Fortunate Son but dont want to delve into the lyrics...yeah i wonder...
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I am German and probably have a different relationship to the US American reality than the US Americans themselves.
I sometimes wonder, but on the whole I wish them all the best.

The point is that Star Wars may be over. If you give it a different, heavier, more dystopian direction, it might still have the same visuals but be a very different form of the story itself.

Going from a rather shallow space fairy tale (yes, there's good and evil in fairy tales too, especially there) with comic-like violence (no one really thinks about the Roadrunner dying) to a reflection of dystopian, autocratic tendencies including genuine despair and suicidal thoughts is too big an area for Star Wars to cover, in my opinion.

Then maybe Disney should open another Sci Fi series.

As written, I have nothing against Andor, it's a well made series, but it goes beyond the scope of Star Wars.
 
Best thing Disney could do if they have any hope for saving that franchise is give it to the crew that made Rogue One and Andor, and let then run with it. That's what Star Wars is all about:

Andor is to the Star Wars series via Disney Plus what Rogue One was to the movie franchise: proof if they can still produce quality stuff in the Star Wars universe if they want to. It should come as no surprise then that many of the same people who made Rogue One are involved in Andor, Andor is a prequel to the Rogue One story line. Like Rogue One, Andor reminds us how good the Star Wars universe can be when it's well done. Andor has great actors, solid dialogue, excellent sets and CGI, and not woke garbage as with the other series put out by Disney but is more inclusive, and it works. When ever I'm about to totally give up on Star Wars, they give me a life line to hang on, and Andor almost makes up for the garbage that was all prior series in the Star Wars universe. My criticisms are all minor, and none make Andor anything but a surprisingly good series. A-

PS, S2 ends right where Rogue One begins, so I watched the last episode of S2, and watch the movie right after, and it was great!
 
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