For me, the 2009 re-boot was the best, then I felt like they could not quite find their way. I remember thinking when watching the second one, good grief, Kahn yet again? Let that poor character die and be gone (even though I like Cumberbatch). After that, even more downhill. It was sad, because I liked the alternate timeline start to it and all of the 2009 casting.
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Star Trek: Starfleet Academy
- Thread starter Sal1950
- Start date
Ricardus
Addicted to Fun and Learning
JJ is so talented he ruined TWO franchises!
OP
- Thread Starter
- #163
Amazing how a few of you guys can be so consistently wrong about the entertainment industry..
Ricardus
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Ah yes, so you're saying he ruined more than two. More than I was aware of.Amazing how a few of you guys can be so consistently wrong about the entertainment industry..
OP
- Thread Starter
- #165
Oh boy, another comment from the deaf, dumb, and blind entertainment reviewer.
The latest Star Trek Section31 (TV) movie IS a disaster
OP
- Thread Starter
- #167
I remember watching it for about 1/2 hour when it was first released, bye bye.The latest Star Trek Section31 (TV) movie IS a disaster
Reminded me of an even crappier Discovery or Dr Who - post Peter Capaldi
Hoping the rumors of Billie Piper being the next Dr come true, she might be interesting.
Keith_W
Master Contributor
This is a fantastic video on why Hollywood ruins franchises.
The fundamental problem: to the director, a movie is art. It has to have an arc - a beginning, development, and an ending. But to Hollywood suits, a successful movie is a franchise - something to be milked over and over. Movies, merch, streaming content. Stories can't end, because when they end that's the end of the IP. So it is endlessly rebooted, or spin-offs about minor characters that nobody cares about, and factory production where the audience and integrity of the story aren't respected.
Movies typically go through 6 stages:
Stage 1: the strong original. Examples: Star Wars: A New Hope, the first Iron Man movie, Alien, Terminator, the first Matrix movie. Also Back to the Future 1. The movie has to stand on its own, and it's a complete movie.
Stage 2: The peak sequel. The golden age. The studio realizes they have a gold mine, so they give the director more money but before they turn the series into slop. The creative soul that animated the first movie hasn't been suffocated yet. Examples: Empire Strikes Back, Terminator 2, The Dark Knight, Aliens.
Stage 3: Escalation. When more money equals less logic. The only way forward is "up" - not "up" in quality, "up" in volume, in explosions, and in stakes. This is the era of excess over clarity. Example: Fast and Furious saga (driving cars in space). The stakes become so high that it loses all meaning.
Stage 4: The content machine. It's no longer about being bigger, it's about a factory line assembly of digital assets. Take your IP and stretch it out. Example: MCU post Endgame. It's like kicking a dog that keeps trying to show you a multiverse version of its own tail.
Stage 5: Nostalgia as a substitute. The desperate era of memberberries. Recognition replaces development, memory replaces meaning, and fan service replaces storytelling. Examples: The Flash. Instead of telling a story about the main character, we get a revolving door of cameos.
Stage 6: The revival. In Hollywood, death is a temporary hiatus while the suits wait for brand recognition to reset. Studios think that if they copy the original but add modern politics and more CGI, they can recreate the magic. Example: the last Star Wars trilogy, Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny. But sometimes the Revival can work, e.g. Blade Runner 2049 - it expanded the world and deepened the themes, even making the original retrospectively better.
The video does not explicitly mention ST: Academy, but you can see how the formula fits. Take the Sisko episode, trying to inject some nostalgia into the series. As this guy says in another video, it's like going on a date with a girl who can't stop talking about her ex. Remember Sisko? Remember how great he was? All that does is demonstrate how weak your show is by comparison.
The fundamental problem: to the director, a movie is art. It has to have an arc - a beginning, development, and an ending. But to Hollywood suits, a successful movie is a franchise - something to be milked over and over. Movies, merch, streaming content. Stories can't end, because when they end that's the end of the IP. So it is endlessly rebooted, or spin-offs about minor characters that nobody cares about, and factory production where the audience and integrity of the story aren't respected.
Movies typically go through 6 stages:
Stage 1: the strong original. Examples: Star Wars: A New Hope, the first Iron Man movie, Alien, Terminator, the first Matrix movie. Also Back to the Future 1. The movie has to stand on its own, and it's a complete movie.
Stage 2: The peak sequel. The golden age. The studio realizes they have a gold mine, so they give the director more money but before they turn the series into slop. The creative soul that animated the first movie hasn't been suffocated yet. Examples: Empire Strikes Back, Terminator 2, The Dark Knight, Aliens.
Stage 3: Escalation. When more money equals less logic. The only way forward is "up" - not "up" in quality, "up" in volume, in explosions, and in stakes. This is the era of excess over clarity. Example: Fast and Furious saga (driving cars in space). The stakes become so high that it loses all meaning.
Stage 4: The content machine. It's no longer about being bigger, it's about a factory line assembly of digital assets. Take your IP and stretch it out. Example: MCU post Endgame. It's like kicking a dog that keeps trying to show you a multiverse version of its own tail.
Stage 5: Nostalgia as a substitute. The desperate era of memberberries. Recognition replaces development, memory replaces meaning, and fan service replaces storytelling. Examples: The Flash. Instead of telling a story about the main character, we get a revolving door of cameos.
Stage 6: The revival. In Hollywood, death is a temporary hiatus while the suits wait for brand recognition to reset. Studios think that if they copy the original but add modern politics and more CGI, they can recreate the magic. Example: the last Star Wars trilogy, Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny. But sometimes the Revival can work, e.g. Blade Runner 2049 - it expanded the world and deepened the themes, even making the original retrospectively better.
The video does not explicitly mention ST: Academy, but you can see how the formula fits. Take the Sisko episode, trying to inject some nostalgia into the series. As this guy says in another video, it's like going on a date with a girl who can't stop talking about her ex. Remember Sisko? Remember how great he was? All that does is demonstrate how weak your show is by comparison.
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Hollywood complains so much about AI alopification, while at the same time they do the exact same thing all on their own . So they are correct on one thing: they don’t need AI to fail…
. So they are correct on one thing: they don’t need AI to fail…
What does this say about us as an audience about our appetite for empathy, imagination, and, dare I say, thinking in more than two dimensions?
The runaway success of these films hints that we’re drifting toward instant gratification over intellectual nutrition. If a melody doesn’t land in seconds, we skip it; if an idea takes effort, we scroll past it. But complexity hasn’t become obsolete it’s just been politely asked to keep it under 10 seconds.
Depth still exists, of course. It’s just no longer competing on equal footing with spectacle. Which raises the uncomfortable question, is this a limitation of the medium or a reflection of us beeing averages?
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OP
- Thread Starter
- #171
Humm, " intellectual nutrition" ? I don't go to the movies to be educated or morally preached to, specially from a bunch of hollyweirds who are politically demented.
I want to come out smiling and laughing, having had a "good time". That's why they call it "entertainment" LOL
Kind of like some of the 1960s music that was written by a bunch of kids with zero life experience telling us what is good and right and how to run the world.
Fair enough i enjoy to a good, mindless blockbuster as much as anyone.Humm, " intellectual nutrition" ? I don't go to the movies to be educated or morally preached to, specially from a bunch of hollyweirds who are politically demented.
I want to come out smiling and laughing, having had a "good time". That's why they call it "entertainment" LOL
Kind of like some of the 1960s music that was written by a bunch of kids with zero life experience telling us what is good and right and how to run the world.
My point is more about what seems to be happening around us/me. Conversations get cut short, ideas need to land instantly, and if something takes a bit of patience, attention starts to drift. The same pattern shows up in music and films everything has to hook you immediately or it risks being skipped.
Entertainment isn’t the problem. It just feels like we’re getting less comfortable sitting with anything that asks a bit more of us.
Ah well maybe it’s just me.
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OP
- Thread Starter
- #173
Yea fair enough, but when I think back to the days I grew up in, music was only fed to us on radio and by 45&78 rpm records at 2.5 minutes a side. LOL Very few got into the LP's till well into the 60s, having been first introduced in 1948. (BTW, for the youngsters out there, LP stands for Long Playing, with microgroove cutting allowing 20-25 minutes per side aprox. A staggering thought.) Outside of some classical music fans, playing a whole LP was nearly unheard of till progressive rock and other themed albums came along, we even started to hear long 10-12 minutes songs and whole albums being played on AOR (album oriented rock) radio in the 70s.
It does seem as if we've come full circle today.
kemmler3D
Master Contributor
I don't think this is wrong, but a simpler theory would just say:
- Take something that is good and familiar
- Repeat until that thing is no longer making money.
It's basically the peter principle, but for movies.
I think CGI, COVID, streaming, streaming services, and AI have all taken a role in changing the the incentives for making a new epic high budget movie. One of the greatest epics, Homer's The Odyssey is being made and that book was fantastic. My fingers are crossed that I will feel like I did when I first saw the sword fighting skeletons in Jason and the Argonauts.
kemmler3D
Master Contributor
I saw the IMAX trailer with the Trojan horse scene, and it definitely exceeded my expectations, which were admittedly kinda low. People had been making fun of the (lack of) historical accuracy online and it made me think it was going to be a dull whiff. Not so, apparently. If the rest of the movie holds up, I'd say he's managed to bring the tense action of The Dark Knight to the classics. That scene in the trailer had everything the bank robbery scene with Heath Ledger had, and then some.
Ricardus
Addicted to Fun and Learning
No, just one with taste.Oh boy, another comment from the deaf, dumb, and blind entertainment reviewer.
Johnkeizer
Active Member
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I find the plot in most of that genre illogical, as also in most horror, but they usually deliver the goods re special effects.
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Spock, is that you?
