Star Trek: Starfleet Academy

[Sal1950]

It is shockingly bad isn't it? Having said that I stopped bothering after the Tom Baker era, it went right downhill very fast.

I was a big Dr Who fan like forever. I can remember watching the William Hartnell episodes on our local Chicago PBS WTTW so many years ago. Tom was the best Dr. but I was mostly OK with the show till they stuck the dumb woke Jodie Whittaker in there and I couldn't stand a minute of the show after. The times with Karen Gillan as Amy Pond w/ Matt Smith, and Billie Piper as Rose Tyler w/ David Tennant were a few of the high points post the Baker years to me.

Ever since William Hartnell and the first appearance of the Daleks screen sci fi has been in decline. Only a creature from the future wielding a plunger can send you cowering behind the sofa, which is from where it should properly be watched, regardless of loudspeaker placement.

Oh my, are you serious. Mention Dr Who to even the slightest fan and the first response you'll get is "Exterminate" LOL


I can remember how excited I was back in 1973 over The Three Doctors episode to see them all together.

Could Billie Piper really be the 16th Dr Who ?
Works for me !!!

 

[Karmacoma]

@Sal1950 I tried to be as open minded as you are, but I had to throw in the towel at episode 3, I'm clearly not part of the target audience.

 

[Red_Red]

In 1973 I wasn't even born yet, but I obviously watched all the episodes and movies of this franchise because, ideologically speaking (most of the time), it resonates with me. Curiosity, benevolent humanity, creativity/imagination, "imaginary space archaeology," and, between the lines, above all, an anthropological and social decoding of our existence... something simple beneath complex appearances (well, not so simple after all).
I haven't seen this new series yet (haven't had the time), and it's true that I found the "Strange New World" series disappointing, especially the last two seasons... but the "Discovery" series wasn't disappointing, at least not entirely!

 

[Grimoire]

In 1973 I wasn't even born yet, but I obviously watched all the episodes and movies of this franchise because, ideologically speaking (most of the time), it resonates with me. Curiosity, benevolent humanity, creativity/imagination, "imaginary space archaeology," and, between the lines, above all, an anthropological and social decoding of our existence... something simple beneath complex appearances (well, not so simple after all).
I haven't seen this new series yet (haven't had the time), and it's true that I found the "Strange New World" series disappointing, especially the last two seasons... but the "Discovery" series wasn't disappointing, at least not entirely!

1973???

 

[Red_Red]

1973???

an awkward but sincere (for the rest) response to this post:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ar-trek-starfleet-academy.69907/#post-2537033

 

[Buckchester]

Star Trek peaked at Next Gen IMO. Since then it seems to keep getting worse.

 

[Honken]

As a big fan of Neil Breen, I found the first episodes great, hilarious even if they were not intended as such. To me, the series really turned into a slog around episode 7 or so, so eh, I'd rather pass on finishing the series.

I personally don't care if Trek is considered "woke" or not, but darn, what hurts is the feeling that new-Trek is shallower than most Sci Fi these days. Being 'woke' is definitely not the problem I have with 'trek today. The inclusion of various characters, and the depiction of rather trite moral conundrums are... fine. But personally, I miss the optimism of the future, the deeper moral questions, and the slower pace found in older-Trek (Picard was really bad in this regard).

I don't know if anyone else have said it already in this thread, but I wholeheartedly blame Kurtzman for the demise of Trek. He truly has no idea what Trek is about. Exploring new ideas and concepts seem foreign to the writers of modern Trek, instead we get very hamfisted commentary of our society today, with lots of explosions and CGI.

I watched some of Discovery and holy shit, it made me angrier than the evening news. Academy doesn't make me angry the same way, but it does feel dumbed down the same way as Discovery does. There's some drama in there that's all right, but a lot of it is so... vanilla it doesn't really merit a watch.

I guess what I am trying to say is, normally I don't mind hamfisted social commentary too much, but Kurzman does it so poorly it hurts to watch. I think it matters a lot how cynical the show runners are, and truly, Kurzman et all are the most cynical of them all and it does affect the quality of the show by a lot.

 

[EngineerNate]

I didn’t mind Jodie Whittaker, but the writing for her seasons (and to a lesser extent Capaldi’s) was absolutely trash tier.

And I’ve been accused of being woke more than once.

 

[Grimoire]

I didn’t mind Jodie Whittaker, but the writing for her seasons (and to a lesser extent Capaldi’s) was absolutely trash tier.

And I’ve been accused of being woke more than once.

I don't see woke as an accusation. Why would anyone accuse another of being aware of what's going on around them?

I'm fully behind your accusations of bad writing for Whittaker and Capaldi though!

 

[EngineerNate]

I was responding to it’s use as a pejorative up thread.

You don’t have to dislike woke to think those seasons were bad

That said, trek and Who have always been pretty socially aware and progressive. The shows trying to take on the issues of the day isn’t exactly surprising.

 

[Grimoire]

I was responding to it’s use as a pejorative up thread.

You don’t have to dislike woke to think those seasons were bad

That said, trek and Who have always been pretty socially aware and progressive. The shows trying to take on the issues of the day isn’t exactly surprising.

You misunderstood me, I am with you on this

 

[EngineerNate]

You misunderstood me, I am with you.

It wasn’t you, it was used by another commenter. I was trying to poke a little at it without coming out swinging.

 

[Sal1950]

1973???

Sorry, I drifted off-topic for a bit there.
The 1973 reference was to the release of the Dr Who episode "The Three Doctors".

That said, trek and Who have always been pretty socially aware and progressive. The shows trying to take on the issues of the day isn’t exactly surprising.

Star Trek and Star War have always presented "socially aware and progressive" positions. That's always been a good thing.
Unfortunately "woke" most appropriately reflects a adolescent and inexperienced world-life view that most will soon grow out of.

 

[Grimoire]

Unfortunately "woke" most appropriately reflects a adolescent and inexperienced world-life view that most will soon grow out of.

I could argue with you about that, but I won't. Because what you have said is just plain wrong.

 

[kemmler3D]

As I understand it,

"Woke" used pejoratively = "thing that annoys me because it doesn't align with my socio-political views, non-specifically"

"Woke" used positively = "willing to confront unpleasant realities of history or present-day institutions and social norms"

I am not sure if anyone else uses these definitions, that's just how I read it when I see it.

In that way I think Trek has always fit both definitions of "woke" depending on who you ask.

Haven't checked out Academy yet, but as someone who got a lot of mileage out of TNG, DS9 and even Voyager, I have to say Discovery, Picard, and even Strange New Worlds did fall flat in some ways for me. In contrast with TNG the characters lacked the poise that was so admirable among the characters of older seasons, and a bit similar to @Honken, I found the writing to be pretty clumsy.

They didn't manage to make any social commentary that I disagreed with even in part, which is not unusual for Trek and me personally, but there was also nothing really thought-provoking, challenging, or interesting about it. I can see the 'cynical' accusation because it played like more of a "social issues of our time" checklist and less of an attempt to dramatize these issues in a way that made them meaningful. Like "look, here's a trans person, now clap" instead of trying to give the issue more gravitas by fictionalizing it and using the setting to find an interesting angle on it. Even if you fervently agree with the POV of the show in those instances, I don't think they brought anything new to the table.

E.g. the Bell Riots episode of DS9 vs. the episodes of Picard where they visit our present just don't land the same.

I also think they are going too light on even attempting to be science-y... at least in TNG they would throw around physics terms enough to make you try to figure out if they made sense.

I blame the influence of the recent movies, which I think were a terrible turn towards trying to Star-Wars-ify Trek into an action "Sci-fi" series instead of just a sci-fi series.

In passing I will just note that Star Wars is actually a fantasy story that happens to take place in space.

 

[Keith_W]

There is a reason I confined my comments to the bad writing, bad acting, and not sticking to what Star Trek is supposed to be. I deliberately avoided commenting on the political messaging. All I will say is: if the show's producers decided they only want to target half the audience or even less, that's their decision. I can choose not to watch it, and I have chosen not to. Reminder that political discussion is banned on ASR. We don't want this thread closed, do we?

 

[Buckchester]

I’m as woke as they come (in the positive defining sense ) but it’s annoying that some screen writers sense of being woke equates to having these loudmouth women who have to put a great man in his place, constantly. Ahrem….Picard.

I loved TNG but I loathed the new Picard series.

 

[jbattman1016]

I’m as woke as they come (in the positive defining sense ) but it’s annoying that some screen writers sense of being woke equates to having these loudmouth women who have to put a great man in his place, constantly. Ahrem….Picard.

I loved TNG but I loathed the new Picard series.

I watched the new show... And i can't even remember what it was about..

 

[xanalog]

Just don't slam a new production simply cause your tired of watching them.

No need to douche other members who don't have the same point-of-view or your nostalgia but are willing to state them!

 

[Buckchester]

I watched the new show... And i can't even remember what it was about..

It was about lens flairs and an annoying woman telling “JL” he was wrong about everything…LOL

It was so completely different than TNG. And certainly not in a good way. Terrible story. Unlikeable characters.

I don’t think Kurtzman watched TNG very much.