• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

"Stand Subwoofers" like the Genelec W371, Kii BXT, etc. Ideally with DSP & Multi-Drivers

pierre

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Jul 1, 2017
Messages
963
Likes
3,048
Location
Switzerland
1606070787609.jpeg

pmc : I don’t know if the sound is good but they are imposing.
 
OP
stevenswall

stevenswall

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
1,366
Likes
1,075
Location
Orem, UT
OP
stevenswall

stevenswall

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
1,366
Likes
1,075
Location
Orem, UT

bunnyfuzz

Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2019
Messages
78
Likes
126
I wonder if after GLM that sounds almost identical to the 8350 with more SPL?

These are just "Classic" models. GLM is not compatible with these. Room correction is via dip switches and dual subs evening out room modes.
 

Sprint

Senior Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 19, 2019
Messages
455
Likes
304
These are just "Classic" models. GLM is not compatible with these. Room correction is via dip switches and dual subs evening out room modes.

Do you use any correction for subs?
 

Sprint

Senior Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 19, 2019
Messages
455
Likes
304
No, I don't. Just plug and play, and I don't fret too much over it since it sounds very good as is.
Thanks! I guess the cross over is then handled in your subs, correct? From what I see, the signal is notebook -> subs -> monitors. correct?
 

bunnyfuzz

Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2019
Messages
78
Likes
126
Thanks! I guess the cross over is then handled in your subs, correct? From what I see, the signal is notebook -> subs -> monitors. correct?

Yes, the crossover is in the Genelec subs (85 Hz). Source is Mac > Apple USB C dongle (£8) > 3.5mm to stereo XLR's > TC Electronic Level Pilot > Genelec 7040's > Genelec 8030's. A three-way system that goes down to 30 Hz (-6dB). All for less than £1600 excluding the computer.

https://www.genelec.com/7040a
https://www.genelec.com/8030c
 

digitalfrost

Major Contributor
Joined
Jul 22, 2018
Messages
1,521
Likes
3,086
Location
Palatinate, Germany
If DIY is an option, building something like this is fairly easy. I'm currently looking into it I found these Scan Speak chassis which are available in 10" and 12" with a fitting passive radiator:

https://www.scan-speak.dk/product/26w-4558t00/
https://www.scan-speak.dk/product/30w-4558t00/

Here is an example of implementation: http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/26W-4558T00.htm

You could simply build the cabinets higher or even use two chassis per side. Or make them less deep and put the passive membrane on the front to get more height (while keeping volume equal).
 

Sprint

Senior Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 19, 2019
Messages
455
Likes
304

richard12511

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
4,335
Likes
6,700
I really like the idea of the W371, and I plan to order a couple someday to go under my 8351s. I don't consider the W371 as a "stand subwoofer", though. I suppose you could call it that, but "stand subwoofer" is somewhat of an oxymoron in my eyes :p.

A true subwoofer(in my view), should only be playing sub 100Hz content, so that way it can be moved around the room independently to generate the most accurate response, without the fear of it being localized. The W371 performs well much higher in the frequency range than typical subwoofers, but to use that capability, you have to co-locate it with the front speakers.

Also the W371A only extends (-6) to 23Hz, and I generally look for (-3)16-18Hz extension. Very little music has sub 20Hz content, but it does exist, and it's an awesome feeling to listen to at high volumes.

I view the W371 essentially as a way to turn your Genelec stand mount speakers into Genelec tower speakers. Instead of selling a Revel Gem2 and Revel Salon2 in the same speaker line, Genelec just sells a Gem2, with the option of converting it into a Salon2 as a separate charge.

Whenever I do purchase the W371s, I'll treat the 8351 + W371 as a single speaker, and still cross it over to real subwoofers below 80Hz or so.
 

onion

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2019
Messages
338
Likes
379
Unfortunately, cardioide dispersion does not help you much in the room's resonating area. Standing waves will build up energy while bouncing around and will ignore the dispersion characteristics because there's no longer any controlled directivity to stop it once the initial wave hits the walls and reflects. In the resonating area the steady-state response is the best metric to use as a visual aid to see what we hear, and in the same steady-state response even Kii and the like will suffer from the same room-behavior as other speakers. Here's a few examples with the Kii;

View attachment 60177
https://www.stereophile.com/content/kii-audio-three-loudspeaker-measurements


View attachment 60178
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end/1048540-kii-three-have-you-heard-them-23.html#post12588247


I have a ton of measurements demonstrating the same thing in my own room with Kii and other speakers. Differences can of course be seen, but they are completely dwarfed by the evilness of the room and could mostly be explained by small differences in placements.
Above about 200 hz the effects will begin to show.

Don't take this as criticism of Kii or any other cardioide speakers because it isn't.

Although I didn't take any measurements, I found the Kii three bass too difficult to control (boomy) in my small room. I put this down to the room, not the Kii three which I suspect sounds sensational in the right sort of room. My room. really needs flexible placement of low frequency emitters.
 

onion

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2019
Messages
338
Likes
379
I did but the result was not satisfactory (too little bass or too boomy with no happy medium). The right side of the front part of the room is too ‘enclosed’ as it has a bricked-over chimney stack on the side wall protruding out.
 

Purité Audio

Master Contributor
Industry Insider
Barrowmaster
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 29, 2016
Messages
9,051
Likes
12,150
Location
London
I find them one of if not the most easily configured, boundary filters/peq and then the included baxendale filters.
Keith
 
OP
stevenswall

stevenswall

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
1,366
Likes
1,075
Location
Orem, UT
I really like the idea of the W371, and I plan to order a couple someday to go under my 8351s. I don't consider the W371 as a "stand subwoofer", though. I suppose you could call it that, but "stand subwoofer" is somewhat of an oxymoron in my eyes :p.

A true subwoofer(in my view), should only be playing sub 100Hz content, so that way it can be moved around the room independently to generate the most accurate response, without the fear of it being localized. The W371 performs well much higher in the frequency range than typical subwoofers, but to use that capability, you have to co-locate it with the front speakers.

Also the W371A only extends (-6) to 23Hz, and I generally look for (-3)16-18Hz extension. Very little music has sub 20Hz content, but it does exist, and it's an awesome feeling to listen to at high volumes.

I view the W371 essentially as a way to turn your Genelec stand mount speakers into Genelec tower speakers. Instead of selling a Revel Gem2 and Revel Salon2 in the same speaker line, Genelec just sells a Gem2, with the option of converting it into a Salon2 as a separate charge.

Whenever I do purchase the W371s, I'll treat the 8351 + W371 as a single speaker, and still cross it over to real subwoofers below 80Hz or so.

Pretty sure that -6 at 23hz figure is in an anechoic chamber... My 8260 is quoted as 29Hz - 20 kHz +/-1dB, but in a room it's flat to about 18hz, and I'll be the W371 can do that at higher SPLs. That would be crazy to listen to though, but I'm curious how GLM would work with the W371 and subwoofers... Seems like you'd want to cross the subs over more around 40hz to allow the w371 to do its directional bass as low as possible before giving up and going to an omni sub.

Note: If the w371 is best used as a midbass module to increase SPL... My god, Genelec is a lost cause for anyone who isn't an SPL chaser. Praying that's not true and they don't continue to follow the crowd trying to push for higher SPLs at all costs to enable studios and theaters to destroy generations of art and hearing.
 
Top Bottom