Squeezelite

[somebodyelse]

As you can see below, squeezelite when run from the command line (in this case Linux), has a boat load of options.

Does the Wiim allow ANY configuration of these options or is it "black box" and you have to accept whatever hidden options they use?

For example, can you control squeezelite resampling options or buffer sizes or limit supported sample rate or supported codes etc.

So far as I know it's fixed - at least if there is a way to change it, it isn't documented. The only controls in the squeezelite section of the app are to enable it, and to enable auto-reconnection to the server. If you have a specific request they might add it in a future version. I don't remember seeing anything in the unofficial API docs, and haven't gone looking to see if it's rootable.

 

[somebodyelse]

You can sure do it in the server but only as a general setting.

In custom-convert.conf you can define things per device_id too.

 

[audio_tony]

There's a lot in your post to unpack, but let me start with this above. LMS is a music server -- a software application that indexes, organizes, and distributes a library of digital music -- and needs more CPU power than is offered by most NAS devices. People run LMS on a Windows, MacOS, or linux PC. It can also be run on a Raspberry Pi which has become a popular inexpensive and energy-efficient option. I'm not saying that it's impossible to run LMS on a NAS, but if it can be done at all it will require a lot of maintenance. It will also be slow, particularly as your music library grows in size.

I guess it depends on library size, but I have run LMS on a multitude of devices over the past 20+ years and never had an issue with CPU power.

It is very lightweight.

If anything, the biggest consumer of CPU is the indexing process. I've also found that a good fast disk subsystem helps e.g. a RAID array or SSD.

I guess if one transcodes everything that would push CPU usage up a little, but for audio that's trivial.

It'll probably run quite satisfactorily on a Raspberry Zero!

 

[mc365mc]

There's a lot in your post to unpack, but let me start with this above. LMS is a music server -- a software application that indexes, organizes, and distributes a library of digital music -- and needs more CPU power than is offered by most NAS devices. People run LMS on a Windows, MacOS, or linux PC. It can also be run on a Raspberry Pi which has become a popular inexpensive and energy-efficient option. I'm not saying that it's impossible to run LMS on a NAS, but if it can be done at all it will require a lot of maintenance. It will also be slow, particularly as your music library grows in size.

I totally disagree with this sentiment. I've run LMS and Lyrion now on a very modest NAS for like almost a decade now. Haven't encountered anything where the NAS was limiting factor due to horse power. My collection is only a couple hundred gigs but I have a lot of lossless flac, some DSD files, a lot of EAC ripped 192Khz VBR mp3, files etc. I use the Tidal Connect, WeFunk Radio, 1000 albums you must hear before you die, iHeartRadio, Radio Paradise, Squeeze DSP, uPnP bridge, etc.
The one thing I did do was switch from an LMS build specifically compiled for my NAS (QNAP) to running the generic build in a docker container, but that was more about the NAS software updates and compatibility issues.

 

[mc365mc]

I see what you mean. But following the same reasoning the manufacturers might also just as well skip UPnP. But they don‘t!
I rather think it is pure ignorance.
Further, if I had anything to say in the WiiM marketing I would mention Squeezelite on page one! I only found out by coincidence that this was implemented in their streamers.

The Squeeze protocol is open source and therefore not something they can control and ensure a comfortable and consistent experience. LMS as a system competes with their product lines and offers interoperability outside of their brand. LMS may offer functionality that possibly conflicts with contractual arrangements such as offering Spotify when maybe they have a deal with tidal. Essentially LMS is to versatile and open for big manufacturers who need control over their brand.

 

[rcstevensonaz]

CPU: Intel Core i7 4790K @ 400GHz
RAM (some died on me, what's left) 24.0GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 798MHz (9-9-9-24

Just a quick note that this is massive overkill (both CPU and memory) from the perspective of a server running Lyrion (LMS) and/or a NAS for file storeage (including zfs).

 

[EJ3]

Just a quick note that this is massive overkill (both CPU and memory) from the perspective of a server running Lyrion (LMS) and/or a NAS for file storeage (including zfs).

It's overkill?
Having been built locally almost 10 years ago (when I was living on the Island of Saipan), it suits my needs just fine.
Why overkill?
It has become sluggish since I had to pull one of the RAM units.
I'm contemplating a full RAM replacement.
Thank you for your consideration.

 

[rcstevensonaz]

It's overkill?
Having been built locally almost 10 years ago (when I was living on the Island of Saipan), it suits my needs just fine.
Why overkill?
It has become sluggish since I had to pull one of the RAM units.
I'm contemplating a full RAM replacement.
Thank you for your consideration.

That is very strange, and I am not entirely sure why your machine is sluggish. My primary desktop PC (used for tasks far beyond what would be required by Lyrion and NAS) is a base Alder Lake Core i5.

But the requirement for running Lyrion and NAS is far lower, and yet still provide very responsive speeds and fully saturate the ethernet connections:

• LMS server: virtual machine with only 1 core and allowed 2 GB RAM (Debian headless)
• NAS server (XigmaNAS with ZFS file storage, no dedup), virtual machine with only 2 cores and fixed 8 GB RAM (FreeBSD headless)

In your case, I suspect the issue is Windows and perhaps some lingering RAM issues. But in either case, an i3 and at least 8Gb (ideally 16GB) of RAM on Windows should be more than powerful for running Lyrion Server and NAS service. And far more than sufficient under a Linux-based distribution.

 

[Digital_Thor]

Had Pi3 with Digi one since they came out, running picoreplayer - now also with Tidal baked in. Works just fine for me and I can't anything really fault it, since there constantly willl be coming out new stuff... but this just works, so I don't need to look
ASR proved that the Digi one is plenty good for top-notch playback... and my DAC is a solved "problem".

 

[ShadowBoxer]

It has become sluggish since I had to pull one of the RAM units.

Depending on the architecture some RAM needs to be in matched pairs. YMMV.

 

[EJ3]

That is very strange, and I am not entirely sure why your machine is sluggish. My primary desktop PC (used for tasks far beyond what would be required by Lyrion and NAS) is a base Alder Lake Core i5.

But the requirement for running Lyrion and NAS is far lower, and yet still provide very responsive speeds and fully saturate the ethernet connections:

• LMS server: virtual machine with only 1 core and allowed 2 GB RAM (Debian headless)
• NAS server (XigmaNAS with ZFS file storage, no dedup), virtual machine with only 2 cores and fixed 8 GB RAM (FreeBSD headless)

In your case, I suspect the issue is Windows and perhaps some lingering RAM issues. But in either case, an i3 and at least 8Gb (ideally 16GB) of RAM on Windows should be more than powerful for running Lyrion Server and NAS service. And far more than sufficient under a Linux-based distribution.

It became sluggish after the RAM started acting up. And I pulled the one that was acting up.
As @ShadowBoxer said: I suspect that if I replace it with a new set of RAM, that all will be fine again.
Thank you all for your information.

 

[rcstevensonaz]

It became sluggish after the RAM started acting up. And I pulled the one that was acting up.
As @ShadowBoxer said: I suspect that if I replace it with a new set of RAM, that all will be fine again.
Thank you all for your information.

If your machine is 10 years old, you have definitely gotten your value out of it. And yes, memory is faster when run in matched pairs (or triplets depending on which architecture your mother boards uses), but it should still be more than sufficient with a single RAM... though in many cases, there is a specific DIMM slot that should be used for a single RAM module (check your motherboard manual for RAM placement).

But if you want to try fixing, a few things to check:

• Make sure your BIOS no longer thinks the other RAM is still present (this is unlikely since it should automatically update)
• Take out the existing RAM and use a pencil eraser to clean the gold contacts
• Make sure the RAM is installed in the preferred DIMM slot(s) per motherboard manual
• Run MEMTEST86 or equivalent to test the existing RAM module(s) for errors

 

[EJ3]

If your machine is 10 years old, you have definitely gotten your value out of it. And yes, memory is faster when run in matched pairs (or triplets depending on which architecture your mother boards uses), but it should still be more than sufficient with a single RAM... though in many cases, there is a specific DIMM slot that should be used for a single RAM module (check your motherboard manual for RAM placement).

But if you want to try fixing, a few things to check:

• Make sure your BIOS no longer thinks the other RAM is still present (this is unlikely since it should automatically update)
• Take out the existing RAM and use a pencil eraser to clean the gold contacts
• Make sure the RAM is installed in the preferred DIMM slot(s) per motherboard manual
• Run MEMTEST86 or equivalent to test the existing RAM module(s) for errors

I had totally forgot about the eraser trick & I have 2 brand new thick (like first grade style) pencils I bought 4 or 5 years ago with big, fat erasers.

 

[ddaudio]

The Squeeze protocol is open source and therefore not something they can control and ensure a comfortable and consistent experience. LMS as a system competes with their product lines and offers interoperability outside of their brand. LMS may offer functionality that possibly conflicts with contractual arrangements such as offering Spotify when maybe they have a deal with tidal. Essentially LMS is to versatile and open for big manufacturers who need control over their brand.

I just don't agree with any of this. Sorry.

The Squeeze protocol is absolutely mature/stable and will not change because it must continue to work with legacy hardware from the original Slim Devices ones through all the Logitech models. It is much more predictable than UPnP/DLNA where whatever the standards are, the only consistency seems to be lack of consistency: eg gapless capabilities, Mime type negotiation, circumstances over whether and when the connection is closed/reopened, etc.

Unless a manufacturer provides a UPnP server, with which they can guarantee compatibility, any interoperability with their client will inevitably be hit and miss. On the other hand, Squeezelite will work consistently with LMS, by definition. There is no other reason for its existence. And in general, open source will necessarily follow standards to a far greater extent than any proprietry solution.

If a manufacturer is not selling a music server they are not in competition with LMS. And the argument of possible contractual difficulties makes no sense as it would equally apply to any server their UPnP clients connect to and it doesn't stop them all providing one. Every TV, Blu-ray player and streaming stick in my house contains a UPnP renderer.

 

[terryforsythe]

An issue I have had is that Tidal does not stream from a Linux desktop to Tidal Connect on a WiiM over WiFi. (Side note, Spotify streams from Linux to a WiiM over WiFi perfectly fine). I tried both accessing Tidal via a web browser and using an app called "Tidal Hi-Fi". In either case, there was no option for streaming Tidal to my WiiM over WiFi.

I ended up installing a Linux app called "Minidlna". When I open up Tidal I now have a cast icon that I can use to connect to my WiiM, though it uses DLNA/UPnP, not Tidal Connect. It seems to work well. I am using it now and have not experienced any issues that I noticed.

I do use Squeezelite to stream from LMS on my NAS, and that also works well, but the Tidal UI in LMS is a little too clunky for my taste.

 

[terryforsythe]

One thing I forgot to mention is that miniDLNA only works with Google Chrome as far as I can tell. I tried it with Firefox, and it does not work with it.

 

[mc365mc]

I just don't agree with any of this. Sorry.

The Squeeze protocol is absolutely mature/stable and will not change because it must continue to work with legacy hardware from the original Slim Devices ones through all the Logitech models. It is much more predictable than UPnP/DLNA where whatever the standards are, the only consistency seems to be lack of consistency: eg gapless capabilities, Mime type negotiation, circumstances over whether and when the connection is closed/reopened, etc.

Unless a manufacturer provides a UPnP server, with which they can guarantee compatibility, any interoperability with their client will inevitably be hit and miss. On the other hand, Squeezelite will work consistently with LMS, by definition. There is no other reason for its existence. And in general, open source will necessarily follow standards to a far greater extent than any proprietry solution.

If a manufacturer is not selling a music server they are not in competition with LMS. And the argument of possible contractual difficulties makes no sense as it would equally apply to any server their UPnP clients connect to and it doesn't stop them all providing one. Every TV, Blu-ray player and streaming stick in my house contains a UPnP renderer.

You don't have to agree. I'm speaking to why Major international manufactures don't include squeeze even when they don't include roon or similar licensed alternative. UPnP is already ubiquitous and basically finalized, any manufacturer that didn't include it would be at a disadvantage. Squeeze is totally dependent on unaffiliated dev support. That is not something Mega Billion Dollar corp feel comfortable hitching their wagon to.

 

[mc365mc]

An issue I have had is that Tidal does not stream from a Linux desktop to Tidal Connect on a WiiM over WiFi. (Side note, Spotify streams from Linux to a WiiM over WiFi perfectly fine). I tried both accessing Tidal via a web browser and using an app called "Tidal Hi-Fi". In either case, there was no option for streaming Tidal to my WiiM over WiFi.

I ended up installing a Linux app called "Minidlna". When I open up Tidal I now have a cast icon that I can use to connect to my WiiM, though it uses DLNA/UPnP, not Tidal Connect. It seems to work well. I am using it now and have not experienced any issues that I noticed.

I do use Squeezelite to stream from LMS on my NAS, and that also works well, but the Tidal UI in LMS is a little too clunky for my taste.

From what I understand, these budget and android based streamers do not support Tidal connect. Similar to the way LMS does not. Over simplified but in a nutshell LMS runs a web instance of Tidal and allows you to control it remotely through the LMS app. Tidal connect is from Tidals perspective is meant for audio electronics manufacturers (e.g. sony, onkyo) and is not a software solution.

 

[pablolie]

From what I understand, these budget and android based streamers do not support Tidal connect. Similar to the way LMS does not. Over simplified but in a nutshell LMS runs a web instance of Tidal and allows you to control it remotely through the LMS app. Tidal connect is from Tidals perspective is meant for audio electronics manufacturers (e.g. sony, onkyo) and is not a software solution.

If it works... so what. I wish all of this stuff was based on html5 multimedia support. but of course it isn't for the usual reasons.

 

[Barrelhouse Solly]

I use both Moode Audio and LMS. My LMS server is a Raspberry Pi 3B running PiCorePlayer connected to my main router by ethernet. My music is on a NAS. I have over 80K files. LMS works fine. Response time is well within what is perceived by an ordinary human as instantaneous. LMS indexes my music much faster than MPD, the foundation of Moode. I like the Moode UI and collection of tweaks better than what LMS offers, but for the basic function of selecting and playing music I don't see much difference. Both support Qobuz, my streaming choice although Moode supports it only as a UPNP renderer. One thing I do like is that Squeezelite, the LMS client, runs just fine on a Pi 2 zero W running PiCorePlayer. You can't beat an under $25 piece of hardware that you can connect to a DAC.