Squeezelite

[Deleted member 89782]

Since I dove into the Squeezebox/LMS universe I am spoiled for anything else. I had the Squeezebox Touch on order for half a year before it was even released. I ran this and multiple Squeezebox Radios for a decade. From the start my music collection had been stored on an NAS running LMS. My control point has always been iPeng on iOS including playback on the iPhone or iPad. I got so used to the system‘s features and capabilities that I never spent a thought on that other environments could be much different.

Well, I was taught otherwise. Becoming a bit more modern after one of my radios gave up the ghost (and just waiting for the others to follow) I bought a Sonos. What a horrible experience. Then came Raumfeld. Not much better. Next was Bluesound which I still have. Much more professionel than the latter, but still a drag. I should add that my primary interest is streaming from my own NAS. Spotify, Tidal etc. are of no interest to me - I have enough of my own.
UPnP is heavily dependant on the server software. If you want a decent one it‘ll cost you. With SMB implementations like with Bluesound you are also stuck with what they offer. None of them can keep up with LMS ( now: Lyrion)), not in the least! The problem with LMS is that it can only serve Squeezeboxes or devices that identify themselves as such by running Squeezelite. On a side note, the UPnP plugin of LMS will make it visible for UPnP renderers, but it is so basic that it close to useless.

Now I came to discover that WiiM streamers (at least most of them) have a Squeezelite implementation. So I bougjt a WiiM Amp Ultra. Man, what a revelation. I‘m back in the game of Squeezeboxes!

LMS/Lyrion is such a great server and it is for free. So why don‘t more brands support it? One of the great mysteries in life to me.

 

[jhenderson0107]

I agree that LMS is a wonderful, useful, well maintained freeware product. Well before high quality endpoints like the WiiM devices became available, it was trivial to use cheap Raspberry PIs as LMS endpoints with nearly any USB DAC. I believe it is infrequently supported by modern hardware because only a comparatively tiny minority of dinosaurs (like me) host local libraries. My kids, spouse and nearly all my acquaintances consume their content via streaming services, like spotify.

 

[Deleted member 89782]

I agree that LMS is a wonderful, useful, well maintained freeware product. I believe it is infrequently supported by modern hardware because only a comparatively tiny minority of dinosaurs (like me) host local libraries. My kids, spouse and nearly all my acquaintances consume their content via streaming services, like spotify.

Haha, another dinosaur!
I guess you have a point there. But then they might just as well skip UPnP.

 

[Deleted member 89782]

It is not only the server but also iPeng on iOS which makes LMS such a great user experience. You can configure custom sorting criteria in LMS which are one-on-one reflected in iPeng. I can even look at ALL tags of a given file, something I haven‘t seen anywhere else so far.

 

[Apesbrain]

Eversolo offers something called "Squeeze Connect" which supports Lyrion. It's an Android based device so you can also install a controller app.

 

[jhenderson0107]

Via an one-time, in-app purchase, iPeng also acts as a player. This feature permits lossless playback of self-hosted music remotely when out-and-about - no subscription required. Unfortunately, iPeng doesn't support the excellent SqueezeDSP plugin which is normally available in the Extras submenu when controlling endpoints at home using the LMS web interface or Material skin.

 

[ddaudio]

On a side note, the UPnP plugin of LMS will make it visible for UPnP renderers, but it is so basic that it close to useless.

The other way around is possible: run the UPnPBridge plugin (or equivalent ones for Airplay and Chromecast clients) so that LMS sees the renderer as as Squeezelite device. Depending on the client, a little bit of messing around with the settings may be required - there are so many implementations out there and standards are not always followed. But once set up, you get all the LMS functionality (except in the case of UPnP, exact playback sync with other devices on your LMS).

I use the UPnP Bridge successfully with a WiiM mini (that's the WiiM device without an inbuilt Squeezelite), a Denon AVR and an AudioPro portable speaker (importantly, all those clients can do gapless). and also the Chromecast Bridge for a Chromecast Audio.

For clients that can't do gapless, the plugins have a "flow" mode which delivers a continuous stream to the the device, though you lose metadata delivery to the client and you have to resample to a chosen sample rate in the settings.

There's also a new native Squeezelite app for Android and for control the Material Skin web/phone app interface goes from strength to strength.

 

[Deleted member 89782]

The other way around is possible: run the UPnPBridge plugin (or equivalent ones for Airplay and Chromecast clients) so that LMS sees the renderer as as Squeezelite device. Depending on the client, a little bit of messing around with the settings may be required - there are so many implementations out there and standards are not always followed. But once set up, you get all the LMS functionality (except in the case of UPnP, exact playback sync with other devices on your LMS).

I use the UPnP Bridge successfully with a WiiM mini (that's the WiiM device without an inbuilt Squeezelite), a Denon AVR and an AudioPro portable speaker (importantly, all those clients can do gapless). and also the Chromecast Bridge for a Chromecast Audio.

For clients that can't do gapless, the plugins have a "flow" mode which delivers a continuous stream to the the device, though you lose metadata delivery to the client and you have to resample to a chosen sample rate in the settings.

There's also a new native Squeezelite app for Android and for control the Material Skin web/phone app interface goes from strength to strength.

I‘ve tried that with otherUPnP end-points to no avail. There was always something that didn‘t work. Good for you if you got it to run on the WiiM mini.

 

[ddaudio]

I‘ve tried that with otherUPnP end-points to no avail. There was always something that didn‘t work. Good for you if you got it to run on the WiiM mini.

I don't remember needing to do anything special in the case of the WiiM Mini (perhaps playing with the timing of the request for the next track when using online services was needed). The Denon was a different matter - it fails to report any supported Mime types to the server, but is resolvable by adding the Mime types manually in the Plugin.

If you, or anyone, wants to give it another go, we'll support you to the best of our abilities over on the Lyrion forums.

 

[Deleted member 89782]

I don't remember needing to do anything special in the case of the WiiM Mini (perhaps playing with the timing of the request for the next track when using online services was needed). The Denon was a different matter - it fails to report any supported Mime types to the server, but is resolvable by adding the Mime types manually in the Plugin.

If you, or anyone, wants to give it another go, we'll support you to the best of our abilities over on the Lyrion forums.

Thank you for the offer. But as it is I am happy with the WiiM Ultra running Squeezelite and genuinely being recognized as a Squeezebox. This is straight forward and foolproof. I just wish more streamers on the market would have the Squeezelite implementation.

With the UPnP bridge plugin I can try all sorts of things but don‘t understand what I am doing there. I‘m a consumer not a programmer.

 

[ddaudio]

Thank you for the offer. But as it is I am happy with the WiiM Ultra running Squeezelite and genuinely being recognized as a Squeezebox. This is straight forward and foolproof. I just wish more streamers on the market would have the Squeezelite implementation.

With the UPnP bridge plugin I can try all sorts of things but don‘t understand what I am doing there. I‘m a consumer not a programmer.

Completely understand. It's much simpler to use an actual Squeeze device like the WiiM Ultra. I too would like to see more hardware with native clients.

Was just pointing out the possibilities.

 

[EJ3]

Since I dove into the Squeezebox/LMS universe I am spoiled for anything else. I had the Squeezebox Touch on order for half a year before it was even released. I ran this and multiple Squeezebox Radios for a decade. From the start my music collection had been stored on an NAS running LMS. My control point has always been iPeng on iOS including playback on the iPhone or iPad. I got so used to the system‘s features and capabilities that I never spent a thought on that other environments could be much different.

Well, I was taught otherwise. Becoming a bit more modern after one of my radios gave up the ghost (and just waiting for the others to follow) I bought a Sonos. What a horrible experience. Then came Raumfeld. Not much better. Next was Bluesound which I still have. Much more professionel than the latter, but still a drag. I should add that my primary interest is streaming from my own NAS. Spotify, Tidal etc. are of no interest to me - I have enough of my own.
UPnP is heavily dependant on the server software. If you want a decent one it‘ll cost you. With SMB implementations like with Bluesound you are also stuck with what they offer. None of them can keep up with LMS ( now: Lyrion)), not in the least! The problem with LMS is that it can only serve Squeezeboxes or devices that identify themselves as such by running Squeezelite. On a side note, the UPnP plugin of LMS will make it visible for UPnP renderers, but it is so basic that it close to useless.

Now I came to discover that WiiM streamers (at least most of them) have a Squeezelite implementation. So I bougjt a WiiM Amp Ultra. Man, what a revelation. I‘m back in the game of Squeezeboxes!

LMS/Lyrion is such a great server and it is for free. So why don‘t more brands support it? One of the great mysteries in life to me.

I have never used squeezebox/LMS. But I am hoping to begin the transfer of all my LP's, 45's (just a very few, like maybe 10) & 78's (from my father's born date of 1927, collected by my grandmother, so there are more than 10) and my cassettes & reel to reel (mostly family stuff). 2 years ago I had digitized my families home movies from the 1931 wedding of my mother's parents (a snow skiing wedding in 1931)-1965 (when the film cameras light meter broke).
So a new project with many new things needed to spend money on.
The squeezebox/LMS universe sounds like it may be for me. I want to use a NAS and I have no use or interest in streaming (as I have more than I could likely listen to) without streaming a thing. Hopefully I'll have the time (& money) to get what I need to do together for this after the beginning of the year.

 

[mlsstl]

I've used LMS (and its prior incarnations) for over 20 years now -- I bought their first player, the SliMP3. Still have one Raspberry Pi player for a headphone setup but use WiiM players in my other systems. I'm about 50:50 local server versus Qobuz these days, but I have a fair amount of material that was never digitally released or is otherwise not available via streaming services. I use both the WiiM app and the LMS program to select & play music. I find LMS is much better if I want to build a queue or playlist that integrates both my local material with Qobuz tracks in a single listening session. That said, the WiiM app started off being very limited but they have consistently improved its features based on customer recommendations. It's very good these days and, IMO, is only behind LMS in the feature noted above. LMS is open source at its best.

 

[Apesbrain]

The squeezebox/LMS universe sounds like it may be for me. I want to use a NAS and I have no use or interest in streaming

There's a lot in your post to unpack, but let me start with this above. LMS is a music server -- a software application that indexes, organizes, and distributes a library of digital music -- and needs more CPU power than is offered by most NAS devices. People run LMS on a Windows, MacOS, or linux PC. It can also be run on a Raspberry Pi which has become a popular inexpensive and energy-efficient option. I'm not saying that it's impossible to run LMS on a NAS, but if it can be done at all it will require a lot of maintenance. It will also be slow, particularly as your music library grows in size.

If you are playing music files from a computer across a network to a remote player device, then you are "streaming". If your goal is simply to be able to play music files on a hifi system you already own, then it would be far easier to purchase a WiiM Ultra and plug a USB drive containing your files into its back panel. The WiiM device will organize your files and output directly to your hifi; no need at all for a separate server like LMS. If starting from scratch, a WiiM Amp Pro and a pair of KEF bookshelf speakers would be a great solution.

Before you set out on digitizing your analog media, you may want to buy an Ultra, plug it into your hifi, and get used to how it works and what it can do. It will immediately give you access to internet radio which is a benefit in itself. Use your PC to rip a few CDs from your collection, put the files on a USB flash drive, and plug it into the WiiM. This way you can get familiar with playing local files and make some decisions about how the files you record should be organized and tagged to work best for you.

As you gain experience, you can post back here with any questions and advice about how to get started on recording your old records and tapes.

 

[ddaudio]

There's a lot in your post to unpack, but let me start with this above. LMS is a music server -- a software application that indexes, organizes, and distributes a library of digital music -- and needs more CPU power than is offered by most NAS devices. People run LMS on a Windows, MacOS, or linux PC. It can also be run on a Raspberry Pi which has become a popular inexpensive and energy-efficient option. I'm not saying that it's impossible to run LMS on a NAS, but if it can be done at all it will require a lot of maintenance. It will also be slow, particularly as your music library grows in size.

If you are playing music files from a computer across a network to a remote player device, then you are "streaming". If your goal is simply to be able to play music files on a hifi system you already own, then it would be far easier to purchase a WiiM Ultra and plug a USB drive containing your files into its back panel. The WiiM device will organize your files and output directly to your hifi; no need at all for a separate server like LMS. If starting from scratch, a WiiM Amp Pro and a pair of KEF bookshelf speakers would be a great solution.

Before you set out on digitizing your analog media, you may want to buy an Ultra, plug it into your hifi, and get used to how it works and what it can do. It will immediately give you access to internet radio which is a benefit in itself. Use your PC to rip a few CDs from your collection, put the files on a USB flash drive, and plug it into the WiiM. This way you can get familiar with playing local files and make some decisions about how the files you record should be organized and tagged to work best for you.

As you gain experience, you can post back here with any questions and advice about how to get started on recording your old records and tapes.

@EJ3 , There is merit in this approach, and even if you decide at a later date that you would like to take advantage of LMS in order to search, organise, make playlists etc of your music, and/or stream to multiple devices around your house, nothing would be lost if you started with a WiiM device because (except the WiiM Mini as mentioned above) they include the Squeezelite client for use with LMS.

If it's important to you, you might find that the "plug drive into a player" doesn't give you gapless playback (although I don't know if the situation with this has improved in recent years).

I don't know if you already have a NAS? If so, you might be able to install LMS (if the NAS can run Docker containers, that is a route) but it would most likely be a lot simpler to get a Raspberry Pi and run PiCorePlayer (a free and open source solution that can be an LMS server, a Squeezelite player, or both) on it. If you do have a NAS, you could point the Pi to that for your music library, but if not, it would probably be simpler and cheaper to just use a USB drive connected to the Pi.

I guess the bigger challenge would be the equipment/effort needed to digitise your precious recordings.

 

[EJ3]

No NAS yet, all is played from devices that play the original format.
So, starting from scratch. The last computer course that I took was in 2002, on the Island (Republic?) of Diego Garcia (University of Maryland extension). Mostly I have used computers only to play DVD's & Blue Rays. So, basically 'computer illiterate'. Except I used to be good with hardware.
So starting this project from scratch.
After Jan 1 (bonus check coming & second stream of SS starting [my wife's, about 3/8ths of mine]), I hope to be buying and have the gear ready to start making the 'rip's.
To a new NAS.
Not sure if I'll still be on Windows 10 Pro 64 or something else (not planning to be on Windows 11).
Yep, another learning curve (I do not think that I want to go the Raspberry Pi route [I have never even seen one]).
I designed & commissioned my desktop computer to be built by a friend when I was living in Saipan:
CPU: Intel Core i7 4790K @ 400GHz
RAM (some died on me, what's left) 24.0GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 798MHz (9-9-9-24)
Motherboard
ASUSTeK B85M-G R2.0 (SOCKET 1150)
Storage:
1863GB Samsung SSD 850 EVO 2TB (SATA (SSD)
2047GB Samsung PSSD T7 SCSI Disk Device (USB (SSD)
Optical Drive:
HP BDDVDRW CH10L
And I can put a Bluetooth module on it (already have used an old APT-X one to send output to my pre-1990's stereo gear: (Pre-amps: yep, a pair [1977] SINAD 95+ , operating as a team):
With two Holman Preamplifiers, you can synthesis and control four output channels from just two input channels.

Apply all your inputs to the first Holman Preamplifier. Use it for all your tone controls, filters and source and tape selections. Leave its Stereo Mode in Stereo.

Connect the first Holman Preamplifier's MAIN 1 output to one power amplifier and your two front speakers.

Connect the first Holman Preamplifier's MAIN 2 output to any line-level input of the second Holman Preamplifier.

Connect the second Holman Preamplifier's MAIN 1 output to the power amplifier for your two rear speakers.

Rotate the second Holman Preamplifier's stereo mode control to L-R, and start by setting it to about unity gain or a bit less, and keep its tone controls flat. The tone and filter settings of the first Holman Preamplifier are fed automatically to the second Holman Preamplifier.

Set balance on the first preamp. Set front-rear balance on the Volume control of the second preamp.

Leave the power switch of the second preamp ON, and plug its power cord into a switched outlet of the first Holman Preamplifier. Now the power is controlled by the first Holman Preamplifier, too.

The system is Tri-amped can go SEXTO or OCTO amped: 500 watts a channel, 4 Ohm (SINAD 95+).

I have expectations of a year+ project, after I have the gear together & a knowledge of how it integrates together.

 

[Ralph_Cramden]

Diego Garcia

We are currently in the Bering Sea, about 100 miles due north of Adak, AK. Adak and Diego Garcia were the two Navy bases we were always told to avoid being stationed at, lol.

 

[EJ3]

We are currently in the Bering Sea, about 100 miles due north of Adak, AK. Adak and Diego Garcia were the two Navy bases we were always told to avoid being stationed at, lol.

Well, when I was in Diego Garcia (2001-2003), there were 4000 women & 10,00o men. It was $1 a beer, $1.50 a mixed drink & $1.75 a double. To some people: suddenly all women were 10's and the women would not hang out with you unless you were Capt. rank or higher.
BUT: a couple of women were caught leaving with $20K+ each in their luggage. Something like this occurred more than once while I was there.
The smart ones were not Air Force & were assigned to ships & did not try to fly out with loads of cash.
I was ARMY DOD and assigned to various NAVY ships from 2001-2018. Trading marching for fire & boat drills was a good deal.

 

[Deleted member 89782]

There's a lot in your post to unpack, but let me start with this above. LMS is a music server -- a software application that indexes, organizes, and distributes a library of digital music -- and needs more CPU power than is offered by most NAS devices. People run LMS on a Windows, MacOS, or linux PC. It can also be run on a Raspberry Pi which has become a popular inexpensive and energy-efficient option. I'm not saying that it's impossible to run LMS on a NAS, but if it can be done at all it will require a lot of maintenance. It will also be slow, particularly as your music library grows in size.

If you are playing music files from a computer across a network to a remote player device, then you are "streaming". If your goal is simply to be able to play music files on a hifi system you already own, then it would be far easier to purchase a WiiM Ultra and plug a USB drive containing your files into its back panel. The WiiM device will organize your files and output directly to your hifi; no need at all for a separate server like LMS. If starting from scratch, a WiiM Amp Pro and a pair of KEF bookshelf speakers would be a great solution.

Before you set out on digitizing your analog media, you may want to buy an Ultra, plug it into your hifi, and get used to how it works and what it can do. It will immediately give you access to internet radio which is a benefit in itself. Use your PC to rip a few CDs from your collection, put the files on a USB flash drive, and plug it into the WiiM. This way you can get familiar with playing local files and make some decisions about how the files you record should be organized and tagged to work best for you.

As you gain experience, you can post back here with any questions and advice about how to get started on recording your old records and tapes.

I can‘t see how typical NAS devices for domestic use are too weak or slow to run Lyrion.
I‘m on my second QNAP (the most basic one available - 1-bay). Admittedly the first one from 15 years ago was a bit sluggish with indexing. But my current one (approx. 5 years old) is as fast as can be. No complaints whatsoever. I run Lyrion in a docker container on it. A technology I don‘t understand, but it works and I can handle it.

Neither do I see how Lyrion would require extensive maintenance. Once set up all you ever have to do is run a reindex for changed content. Plus updates of course.

Plugging a USB storage into a streamer is the quick and dirty solution. But this would be much more hassle for me to maintain across multiple systems around the house than running a central NAS.

Just for reference, my library contains approx 15,300 tracks spread across 1,100 albums. Occupied storage space is about 450GB.

 

[buckfiddy]

I run Logitech Media Server (Lyrion) from MyQnap.org, installed directly (without Docker containers) on Qnap TS-43D NAS (Intel Celeron J4125 with 4GB memory) with two WiiM Pro Plus endpoints. 44,000 tracks. 2,000 albums. All lossless. Installed quickly. Runs flawlessly. Full library scans take less than a minute. Files index perfectly if tagged correctly. Scrapes artist, album, and song information/lyrics from databases. Interface from web browser (I use my Macbook or Ipad) is quick. Playback almost instantaneous.