Springs Under My Speakers: What's Happening?

[MattHooper]

My understanding is that the speaker box needs to be rigid and as anchored to the ground as possible to prevent distortion. I cannot see how springs would not make it worse.

My stands are filled with dense sand and spiked to the floor.

There seems to be more interest these days in decoupling speakers from the floor rather than coupling.

The idea generally being: for a long time audiophiles have had a misunderstanding that rigidly coupling speakers to the floor via spikes was a way of reducing the influence of vibrations.

But this isn’t true because the spikes are simply focussing the vibrations of the speaker into the floor, and just like sitting the speakers right on the floor, the floor connect as a large membrane amplifying the speaker vibrations (which can also feedback into the speaker).

So these days, many more people seem to be looking at absorbing the vibrations - e.g. using soft footer materials under the speaker to absorb vibrations and change them to heat rather than passing them on to the floor.
Or using springs which will act as a sort of high pass filter for the speaker, and won’t pass on the vibrations to the floor or back in to the speaker.

That’s a brief overview of the idea.

The theory of practice has been debated in this thread.

 

[Thomas_A]

My understanding is that the speaker box needs to be rigid and as anchored to the ground as possible to prevent distortion. I cannot see how springs would not make it worse.

My stands are filled with dense sand and spiked to the floor.

No, that is the wrong understanding. A speaker cannot be rigidly anchored to the ground within its frequency range (with a few exceptions for subwoofers playing very low frequencies). You need to choose feet that put to put the resonance frequency either above 20 kHz or below 10 Hz. Since > 20 kHz is impossible, below 10 Hz is the choice. If you want the speaker be as steady as possible when playing music, that is.

 

[Thomas_A]

There seems to be more interest these days in decoupling speakers from the floor rather than coupling.

BTW, the issue of coupling/spike vs. de-coupling/soft feet came up >40 years ago. So for some, "these days" happened already at that time.

 

[Sal1950]

BTW, the issue of coupling/spike vs. de-coupling/soft feet came up >40 years ago. So for some, "these days" happened already at that time.

I see it mainly debating mostly irrelevant trivia.
I can see in extreme cases where either side can have a very minor advantage but ----
But better speakers will have a 10x effect on SQ than any change of feet will ever make.
YMMV

 

[Thomas_A]

I see it mainly debating mostly irrelevant trivia.
I can see in extreme cases where either side can have a very minor advantage but ----
But better speakers will have a 10x effect on SQ than any change of feet will ever make.
YMMV

Of corse a better speaker will perform better. My point is; spikes have been nonsense since they arrived. There is no need to "spike" the speakers for better stability. If anything, stability just gets worse. Aka cable nonsense.

 

[Sal1950]

Of corse a better speaker will perform better. My point is; spikes have been nonsense since they arrived. There is no need to "spike" the speakers for better stability. If anything, stability just gets worse. Aka cable nonsense.

Let me take the devils advocate there.
If either springs or rubber type feet can allow the speaker to move front to back from the air pressure created by driver movement, this would also modulate the speakers intended output. Not good, a speaker should not be dancing to the music.
YMMV

 

[Thomas_A]

Let me take the devils advocate there.
If either springs or rubber type feet can allow the speaker to move front to back from the air pressure created by driver movement, this would also modulate the speakers intended output. Not good, a speaker should not be dancing to the music.
YMMV

Well, they don’t as long as the feet are soft enoigh. This has been debunked years ago. Spikes make them move more.

 

[Sal1950]

Well, they don’t as long as the feet are soft enoigh. This has been debunked years ago. Spikes make them move more.

??? Sounds like it would be the other way around.
The softer the feet the more the speaker might possibly be moving?

Maybe debunked but by who, to me that doesn't even pass common sense thinking?
Walk up to a tower properly set on spikes and give it a rearward push on top.

Do the same to one with rubber type feet.

Which one gave more movement?

 

[Thomas_A]

??? Sounds like it would be the other way around.
The softer the feet the more the speaker might possibly be moving?

Maybe debunked but by who, to me that doesn't even pass common sense thinking?
Walk up to a tower properly set on spikes and give it a rearward push on top.

Do the same to one with rubber type feet.

Which one gave more movement?

It was brought up by the Swedish Audio-technical society many years ago. Both physics and measurements. It was shown on rec.audio.tech as well. It. I measured it here as well.

Post in thread 'Springs Under My Speakers: What's Happening?'

Jul 11, 2025

"Spikes" raise the resonances into the several hundreds to kilo Hertz. No good either. Regarding the video on "Credeo" isolation base, is audio religion? If you buy it, you're sold.

I’ve never seen hard feet that raise the resonances to the kHz region though. Note: Frequency response is acceleration in graph below.

• Thomas_A

 

[Heinrich]

Post in thread 'Springs Under My Speakers: What's Happening?'

Jul 11, 2025

"Spikes" raise the resonances into the several hundreds to kilo Hertz. No good either. Regarding the video on "Credeo" isolation base, is audio religion? If you buy it, you're sold.

I’ve never seen hard feet that raise the resonances to the kHz region though. Note: Frequency response is acceleration in graph below.

• Thomas_A

On spikes raising the resonance(s) to several hundred to kiloHz: it depends on the properties of the floor these spikes stand on. In case the floor is (theoretically) totally rigid, the resonance is determined by the elasticity of the spikes - they are elastic to a degree - and the mass of the speaker box alone. Of course no floor is made of diamond or Wolfram. The softer the floor, the more and very quickly its compliance determines the frequency.

The main problem is rattling, though. More than three spikes, and rattling is guaranteed - again depending very strongly on the floor's properties. Rattling is a pretty stark signature in a sound, easily picked up by humans.

This all is very basic physics, I can't get why the topic is 'discussed'. Some people even tell, that a movement of the speaker box in reaction to the (bass) cone's movement is - distortion? Is the concept of distortion understood correctly, or is the nature of the floating box's movement understood correctly? Then you clarify the physics, and people are still talking in all directions. It's emblematic for the problem with well minded enthusiasts, going too far beyond. For my purposes I didn't invest more than 10s on the topic in all my life combined, and we are on page 27 here

Please, in case hand the above text over to an AI that will exemplify on anybodies personal blanks (in whatever language). I did, and it was all confirmation with nothing to be changed. You don't expect me to write up that several pages - again?

 

[DSJR]

Our small sitting room has a concrete floor covered in thick underlay and carpet (as was usual in UK homes until minimalism crept in, turning said rooms into bathrooms). At my better half's request, I returned to my ancient Spendors, sat on their low slung trolley stands with castors, so that I can push them to the wall when not in use and wheel them out as required.

Forty years ago, if I was presented with this usage scenario above, I'd have been mortified, as said Spendors and stands wobble around all over the place giving prefect 'decoupling' from the floor, which for rock and jazz music used to be the worst possible thing for many speakers *in my experience.* Sure, rooms with floorboards-on-joists can transmit bass away, but cross-head screwing into said floorboards and placing the spikes into the screw heads, seemed to help (does anyone from my era remember this?). Said Spendors don't really care either way as they're not what I'd call a 'precision' speaker, the tones less 'dynamic' than a modern product derived from the 'thin wall' thinking of old, but it makes me laugh when I remember being so strict on spiking to the floor now being replaced by adding springs or rubber and claims made for a 'better' sound...

Whatever floats yer boat I think these days. As long as whatever you do helps you to enjoy the music better, go for it

 

[Thomas_A]

On spikes raising the resonance(s) to several hundred to kiloHz: it depends on the properties of the floor these spikes stand on. In case the floor is (theoretically) totally rigid, the resonance is determined by the elasticity of the spikes - they are elastic to a degree - and the mass of the speaker box alone. Of course no floor is made of diamond or Wolfram. The softer the floor, the more and very quickly its compliance determines the frequency.

The main problem is rattling, though. More than three spikes, and rattling is guaranteed - again depending very strongly on the floor's properties. Rattling is a pretty stark signature in a sound, easily picked up by humans.

This all is very basic physics, I can't get why the topic is 'discussed'. Some people even tell, that a movement of the speaker box in reaction to the (bass) cone's movement is - distortion? Is the concept of distortion understood correctly, or is the nature of the floating box's movement understood correctly? Then you clarify the physics, and people are still talking in all directions. It's emblematic for the problem with well minded enthusiasts, going too far beyond. For my purposes I didn't invest more than 10s on the topic in all my life combined, and we are on page 27 here

Please, in case hand the above text over to an AI that will exemplify on anybodies personal blanks (in whatever language). I did, and it was all confirmation with nothing to be changed. You don't expect me to write up that several pages - again?

Note though that the spring consists of the interface floor, spike and speaker enclosure. Whatever combination acting like a spring the fundamental is somewhere in the bass region. You just don’t have the stiffness in all parts to reach several thousand kHz for the fundamental.

The resonant peaks shown in my example are around 45, 90 and 135 Hz for a metal tripod, being 15-20 dB above the soft feet. Floor is glued wood mounted on sand, so quite damped structure. One should note that the soft feet both change the speaker-floor resonant frequency to below 10 Hz and isolates from the floor, that also vibrates due to standing waves in the room.

 

[Heinrich]

Note though that the spring consists of the interface floor, spike and speaker enclosure. Whatever combination acting like a spring the fundamental is somewhere in the bass region. You just don’t have the stiffness in all parts to reach several thousand kHz for the fundamental.

The resonant peaks shown in my example are around 45, 90 and 135 Hz for a metal tripod, being 15-20 dB above the soft feet. Floor is glued wood mounted on sand, so quite damped structure. One should note that the soft feet both change the speaker-floor resonant frequency to below 10 Hz and isolates from the floor, that also vibrates due to standing waves in the room.

What I said. The so called spikes are a gamble.

All that anecdotal input without a sound technical background does not help. You, in contrast, provide data, that I have no reason to dismiss. Measurement is a good thing. It confirms quite simple, yet to the point technical ("scientific") reasoning.

Reiterated, if there is still doubt: no spikes!, then please feed post #530 to an AI, and it will tell, filling up the gaps. I wouldn't propose such a move, if the case wasn't that hilarious. There is no bad in being wrong or ignorant once, but to keep that stance is less polite.

 

[Pareto Pragmatic]

I suppose this could do wonders in your room :

Played out of phase in my basement it could be a wonder!

I would love to see what one did in a similar house I did not own, that's for sure.

 

[MAB]

I think the biggest springy resonances, irritating rattles, and audible distortions are oscillating inside audiophile's heads. 27 pages later, few people have actually tried to find out what really happens when springs or other potentially costly objects are placed between speakers and the surface they sit on.

Someone should get some spikes, place a speaker on four or more of them with misadjusted lengths so the arrangement is somewhat tippy and potentially prone to buzzing, and measure with a microphone the sound on a bunch of surfaces (resonant, bouncy, hard, fuzzy, do them all). Control the experiment for position, since most studies I see don't even try to control for this very important parameter. Use an accelerometer if you want, but realize that instrument is even more sensitive and likely to pick up non-audible phenomena. Try to maximize the buzzing to explore how audible the effect can be. Look at the distortion as well, since any of these resonances should manifest as measurable distortion. Maybe even do a high power impedance test since measuring the electrical resonance of the actual speaker is incredibly illuminating, but that measurement is slightly harder than the bog-easy microphone measurement that some people steadfastly refuse to do. Summarize and post the results so we can actually find out how little the physics of cabinet vibration matters in the reproduction of sound across a range of conditions, and how these imaginarily audible effects compare to the very audible room resonances that actually exist.

I've done the above and found no matter what I do to misalign the spikes and no matter what floor I try on, no audible change in sound. I've done all manner of feet on all sorts of floors. I don't hear or measure an increase in clarity, changes in soundstage, cleaner or deeper bass. It sure would be nice to see some additional Science, rather than the keyboard warrior Speculation. Otherwise, this is a jumping-off point for people to follow absurd speculation and misplaced intuition to go and purchase alleged-isolation products that cost more than a good set of speakers.

edit: completed a sentence (in italics)

 

[Sal1950]

It was brought up by the Swedish Audio-technical society many years ago. Both physics and measurements. It was shown on rec.audio.tech as well. It. I measured it here as well.

What you posted was a resonance measurement of one speakers setup but didn't address my posts question at all.

Maybe debunked but by who, to me that doesn't even pass common sense thinking?
Walk up to a tower properly set on spikes and give it a rearward push on top.

Do the same to one with rubber type feet.

Which one gave more movement?

 

[Purité Audio]

I think the biggest springy resonances, irritating rattles, and audible distortions are oscillating inside audiophile's heads. 27 pages later, few people have actually tried to find out what really happens when springs or other potentially costly objects are placed between speakers and the surface they sit on.

Someone should get some spikes, place a speaker on four or more of them with misadjusted lengths so the arrangement is somewhat tippy and potentially prone to buzzing, and measure with a microphone the sound on a bunch of surfaces (resonant, bouncy, hard, fuzzy, do them all). Control the experiment for position, since most studies I see don't even try to control for this very important parameter. Use an accelerometer if you want, but realize that instrument is even more sensitive and likely to pick up non-audible phenomena. Try to maximize the buzzing to explore how audible the effect can be. Look at the distortion as well, since any of these resonances should manifest. Maybe even do a high power impedance test since measuring the electrical resonance of the actual speaker is incredibly illuminating, but that measurement is slightly harder than the bog-easy microphone measurement that some people steadfastly refuse to do. Summarize and post the results so we can actually find out how little the physics of cabinet vibration matters in the reproduction of sound across a range of conditions, and how these imaginarily audible effects compare to the very audible room resonances that actually exist.

I've done the above and found no matter what I do to misalign the spikes and no matter what floor I try on, no audible change in sound. I've done all manner of feet on all sorts of floors. I don't hear or measure an increase in clarity, changes in soundstage, cleaner or deeper bass. It sure would be nice to see some additional Science, rather than the keyboard warrior Speculation. Otherwise, this is a jumping-off point for people to follow absurd speculation and misplaced intuition to go and purchase alleged-isolation products that cost more than a good set of speakers.

Purely a non existing problem which we can sell a solution to situation.
Keith

 

[Thomas_A]

What you posted was a resonance measurement of one speakers setup but didn't address my posts question at all.

Well, the thing is "common sense" is not applicable. First, no-one goes to push speaker to watch it sway - most people use the speakers to listen to music. Secondly, the mass of the cone+air of a typical woofer is ≈1000-fold less than the cabinet mass, making any movement of the cabinet as free-floating in the air negligible. As soon as you put it on spikes or other hard coupling, you will introduce one or several resonances, which increases the movement quite significantly (depending on Q etc). If you just put them on soft feet, such that the resonance will be below the speakers lowest output (say 2-5 Hz resonance), the problem with resonances within the audio spectrum will not occur. As for the expensive "de-coupling devices" on the market, I have no intention to recommend those, since soft feet can be bought very cheap or made as DIY for pennies.

 

[Thomas_A]

I think the biggest springy resonances, irritating rattles, and audible distortions are oscillating inside audiophile's heads. 27 pages later, few people have actually tried to find out what really happens when springs or other potentially costly objects are placed between speakers and the surface they sit on.

Someone should get some spikes, place a speaker on four or more of them with misadjusted lengths so the arrangement is somewhat tippy and potentially prone to buzzing, and measure with a microphone the sound on a bunch of surfaces (resonant, bouncy, hard, fuzzy, do them all). Control the experiment for position, since most studies I see don't even try to control for this very important parameter. Use an accelerometer if you want, but realize that instrument is even more sensitive and likely to pick up non-audible phenomena. Try to maximize the buzzing to explore how audible the effect can be. Look at the distortion as well, since any of these resonances should manifest as measurable distortion. Maybe even do a high power impedance test since measuring the electrical resonance of the actual speaker is incredibly illuminating, but that measurement is slightly harder than the bog-easy microphone measurement that some people steadfastly refuse to do. Summarize and post the results so we can actually find out how little the physics of cabinet vibration matters in the reproduction of sound across a range of conditions, and how these imaginarily audible effects compare to the very audible room resonances that actually exist.

I've done the above and found no matter what I do to misalign the spikes and no matter what floor I try on, no audible change in sound. I've done all manner of feet on all sorts of floors. I don't hear or measure an increase in clarity, changes in soundstage, cleaner or deeper bass. It sure would be nice to see some additional Science, rather than the keyboard warrior Speculation. Otherwise, this is a jumping-off point for people to follow absurd speculation and misplaced intuition to go and purchase alleged-isolation products that cost more than a good set of speakers.

edit: completed a sentence (in italics)

I think you've seen this already, but if not.

Post in thread 'Springs Under My Speakers: What's Happening?'

Feb 17, 2021

Here is a spectrum of the first part of the sweeps with hard and soft feet.

• Thomas_A

• 

 

[Sal1950]

Well, the thing is "common sense" is not applicable. First, no-one goes to push speaker to watch it sway - most people use the speakers to listen to music.

Good way to avoid answering a serious direct question.