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Spotify with DSP - all ideas welcome!!!

SJ777

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#1
The news that Spotify will be rolling out a lossless service this year has sent me on a "future proofing" quest.

Currently I use Roon with Qobuz. I use Roon mainly because it allows for full DSP without the need to have my DACs physically connected to my PC. I use Raspberry Pi's as Roon bridges running Ropieee. My main listening set up (the one for which DSP is most useful/vital) is actually in the same room as my PC, but I prefer to use the RPi.

Don't get me wrong, I like many of the other features of Roon, such as the integration of local files and streaming into one library. I also like the fact that you can control all endpoints with one piece of software, but it's DSP that's vital. With regard to DSP I use a parametric equaliser and crossfeed, both of which have become important to me.

I'm quite happy with my set up and will continue to use Roon with Qobuz for as long as I can. But here's the thing. It's entirely possible that Spotify's move may spell the beginning of the end for Qobuz and maybe Tidal (despite Tidal's recent financial injection). Of course it might not, but I like to weigh up different scenarios.

Roon relies on Qobuz and Tidal for streaming. We all know that a similar deep integration with Spotify (or Amazon) will never happen. I'd love to think that, in the event of Tidal's and Qobuz's demise, Roon would build Spotify Connect into its software, thus allowing for DSP and multiple endpoints. But this would require a significant alteration of their current model.

So this is my question. What are the options for achieving DSP (with PEQ and crossfeed) when using Spotify?

As I say, I can connect my main DAC to my PC, but would then want to use Spotify Connect to control things via my phone from my listening position. I'm assuming that, in this set up, I could use equalising software on my PC.

I also have RPIs available and know that Moode Audio have brought in a PEQ, but that this can't be used at the same time as crossfeed.

Any ideas and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 

Jimbob54

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#2
The news that Spotify will be rolling out a lossless service this year has sent me on a "future proofing" quest.

Currently I use Roon with Qobuz. I use Roon mainly because it allows for full DSP without the need to have my DACs physically connected to my PC. I use Raspberry Pi's as Roon bridges running Ropieee. My main listening set up (the one for which DSP is most useful/vital) is actually in the same room as my PC, but I prefer to use the RPi.

Don't get me wrong, I like many of the other features of Roon, such as the integration of local files and streaming into one library. I also like the fact that you can control all endpoints with one piece of software, but it's DSP that's vital. With regard to DSP I use a parametric equaliser and crossfeed, both of which have become important to me.

I'm quite happy with my set up and will continue to use Roon with Qobuz for as long as I can. But here's the thing. It's entirely possible that Spotify's move may spell the beginning of the end for Qobuz and maybe Tidal (despite Tidal's recent financial injection). Of course it might not, but I like to weigh up different scenarios.

Roon relies on Qobuz and Tidal for streaming. We all know that a similar deep integration with Spotify (or Amazon) will never happen. I'd love to think that, in the event of Tidal's and Qobuz's demise, Roon would build Spotify Connect into its software, thus allowing for DSP and multiple endpoints. But this would require a significant alteration of their current model.

So this is my question. What are the options for achieving DSP (with PEQ and crossfeed) when using Spotify?

As I say, I can connect my main DAC to my PC, but would then want to use Spotify Connect to control things via my phone from my listening position. I'm assuming that, in this set up, I could use equalising software on my PC.

I also have RPIs available and know that Moode Audio have brought in a PEQ, but that this can't be used at the same time as crossfeed.

Any ideas and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Im having similar thoughts. So you have 2 main options I reckon.

1. EQ outside the PC- so either a separate DSP box a la Mini DSP or , a DAC with DSP built in - like the RME ADI 2
2. Bite the bullet and accept a software EQ in the PC that isnt Roon, so that would be Equalizer APO (free) or similar . Except Roon also sends wireless to my streamer whereas Spotify on PC wont.

My trouble is , the former is less than ideal with multiple headphones - whereas with Roon I am a click away from any EQ. Losing Roon also means I lose the ability to seamlessly integrate streaming and local files and remove dupes. The skinflint yorkshireman in me thinks spotify HD via Connect plus EAPO might be ideal solution going forwards and I can spend the savings on losing Roon and Qobuz on more headphones :rolleyes:

What we really need is some software genius to invent a widget that allows Spotify connect to be fed into Roon bit perfect and then let Roon do the DSP and device management to that.
 
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SJ777

SJ777

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Thread Starter #3
The skinflint yorkshireman in me thinks spotify HD via Connect plus EAPO might be ideal solution going forwards and I can spend the savings on losing Roon and Qobuz on more headphones
I didn't realise that you're a fellow Yorkshireman!

The EAPO solution is the only one that I've been able to come up with as well.
 

Jimbob54

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#4
I didn't realise that you're a fellow Yorkshireman!

The EAPO solution is the only one that I've been able to come up with as well.
Still doesnt really work for me as that means a USB link to the PC which I want to avoid (and not make my Cambridge streamer redundant).

Im tied to Roon far more than I am Tidal/ Qobuz unfortunately.
 
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#6
I was also using Roon with Ropieee on a Raspberry Pi connected to my headphone amp. I used Roons DSP to equalise my headphone.

Recently I switched to Spotify. I installed DietPi and Raspotify on my Pi. I configured Raspotify to output to a virtual loopback device and use ffmpeg to read from the loopback device. This allows me to equalise my headphone, but you could also use crossfeed etc. I only have a Raspberry Pi 2 and it works just fine.
 
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#7
I'm not sure if i understand the problem correctly, but using parametric equalizer and crossfeed with Spotify is simple. In Linux I use Pulse Effects and in Windows - Equalizer APO.
 
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SJ777

SJ777

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Thread Starter #8
I'm not sure if i understand the problem correctly, but using parametric equalizer and crossfeed with Spotify is simple. In Linux I use Pulse Effects and in Windows - Equalizer APO.
I suppose I'm looking at full options, particularly using an RPi. I know that I can use a PEQ or crossfeed with Moode, but not both at the same time. Obviously using a Windows PC with EAPO is a solution. Just wondered if there were any more that people used.

Essentially I'm trying to look for the best approximation to Roon (in terms of multipoint DSP) that I can get when using Spotify. My suspicion is that nothing comes close and that's why I'm happy to pay for Roon. Just interested what other solutions are available.
 
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thewas

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#9
As I say, I can connect my main DAC to my PC, but would then want to use Spotify Connect to control things via my phone from my listening position. I'm assuming that, in this set up, I could use equalising software on my PC.
That's what I do and one of reasons I went from Amazon HD music to Spotify, I use EQ Apo on my PC to do the room correction and control the desktop Spotify from my mobile phone.
 

Jimbob54

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#12
The good news is, a free trial (or just buying a month's sub) to new Spotify when launched, plus eapo (free) means you can run the new low cost set up a while in parallel with roon plus tidal/qobuz for either nothing or not a lot. And I just realised my annual qobuz sub just renewed :facepalm:
 
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SJ777

SJ777

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Thread Starter #13
If you use equaliser APO on the PC you can simply use the normal Spotify app .
Thank you. I'm also looking for solutions in addition to this.
 

Jimbob54

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#14
Thank you. I'm also looking for solutions in addition to this.
Was looking at this earlier- but obvious limitations for me... https://www.minidsp.com/products/opendrc-series/opendrc-di

1. only 4 presets- a few shy to cover all my cans
2. (I think) 6 band PEQ which would mean adapting existing 10+ band EQs
3. $300 or more is a chunk of change . If it saved Roon fees , payback in 3 years but who knows what the future holds- doesnt appeal as much as Roon does
 

somebodyelse

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#15
I suppose I'm looking at full options, particularly using an RPi. I know that I can use a PEQ or crossfeed with Moode, but not both at the same time.
This moode forum thread covers that limitation, and the possibility of using the upcoming CamillaDSP support to achieve that goal. How soon a nice GUI for that will appear is an open question. Volumio has already been mentioned, although I don't think that will do crossfeed without some manual rework, and I think the same would apply to both daphile and the old BrutefirDRC plugin on the LMS side. There are projects in progress to use CamillaDSP with LMS, either as a server plugin like BrutefirDRC or on the piCorePlayer end, but they need some manual assembly at the moment. Similarly if you're adept with alsa configs you should be able to chain the PEQ and crossfeed in Moode, but it's not friendly.
 
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SJ777

SJ777

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Thread Starter #16
Similarly if you're adept with alsa configs you should be able to chain the PEQ and crossfeed in Moode, but it's not friendly.
I think this takes me slightly beyond my comfort zone! At present it seems likely that, if I were to use Spotify with PEQ and crossfeed, I'd need to go with Windows and EAPO.
 

somebodyelse

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#17
I think this takes me slightly beyond my comfort zone! At present it seems likely that, if I were to use Spotify with PEQ and crossfeed, I'd need to go with Windows and EAPO.
Probably easiest. If desktop-style computing is allowed you might be able to use PulseEffects on RaspberryPiOS (formerly Raspbian). It works well on recent desktop linux versions (crossfeed and PEQ was my use case), but I haven't tried it on a Pi and there may be some gotcha. The other assumption we've made is that librespot will be able to support the lossless service - it's possible they'll use it as a chance to change the API and break librespot entirely.
 
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