Spotify to launch 'Hi-Fi' CD Quality Tier.

[masterhw]

The caveats mentioned above is that you (a) need reference, such as AB switching, (b), you need to look for artifacts.
Without reference such as AB comparation, it is highly unlikely anyone can tell off the bat, what the track is lossy or lossless and it's bit rate.

I think this is an important convergence, and to most people if it would require effort and unrealistic listening conditions to differentiate, then it passes the bar of “good enough to not matter.”
The difference becomes mostly academic at that point. There is a difference, but will you hear one under typical listening conditions? No.
Does that mean I still want the best for my setup? That’s a personal decision and not one there will be a right or wrong answer for.

 

[Pearljam5000]

. I'm no longer chasing "perfection."

Are you sure you're an audiophile?

 

[voodooless]

Currently Spotify is lossy, yes? Lossy is lossy, you lose information, period, end of story, case close.

No, it’s not. While lossless is lossless, one lossy format is not the same as any other. If we’re talking about audibility, this makes a massive difference. You cannot simply equate the performance of one with the other without proper verification.

There is an audible difference between high res vs CD quality,

You mean where Amir had to cheat by limiting the test track to a bit of silence, and him cranking the volume to 11 to hear the difference in hiss? Sorry, that’s not good enough. Amir said himself that if there would not have been a silence, he would not have been able to hear a difference. I also don’t see the relevance. You tested MP3, not AAC, not Vorbis.

 

[PristineSound]

I think this is an important convergence, and to most people if it would require effort and unrealistic listening conditions to differentiate, then it passes the bar of “good enough to not matter.”
The difference becomes mostly academic at that point. There is a difference, but will you hear one under typical listening conditions? No.
Does that mean I still want the best for my setup? That’s a personal decision and not one there will be a right or wrong answer for.

Indeed it is. That is why I have no issues leaving Qobuz for Spotify because of the superior recommendation and playlist engine.

And also to your previous point, admittingly, it's a bit of an contradictory intuition, if Spotify were to offer lossless high bit rate for a little bit more money, why the heck not? Not different than me owning the Benchmark AHB2 when the Eversolo AMP F-10 will suffice.

 

[PristineSound]

You mean where Amir had to cheat by limiting the test track to a bit of silence, and him cranking the volume to 11 to hear the difference in hiss? Sorry, that’s not good enough. Amir said himself that if there would not have been a silence, he would not have been able to hear a difference. I also don’t see the relevance. You tested MP3, not AAC, not Vorbis.

I am just glad that you actually watched the video

 

[voodooless]

I am just glad that you actually watched the video

What video? I’m just going by your claims of an MP3 ABX test.

 

[masterhw]

Right on, in the real world it is so rarely the case of "all else being equal." If leaving Spotify for a sound quality difference you probably won't hear means you miss out on new music you might enjoy, have to deal with buggy integrations, or (importantly) are hearing different masters then the lossless vs lossy decision must be weighed against others.

When available I now often opt for the Atmos version even though it is 768kbps E-AC-3 and I could be listening to the hi-res 24/96 version. Why? The dynamic range is often far better on the Atmos version, like Lady Gaga's last album going from DR5 to DR13. Bitrate and encoding, beyond a critical point which most people agree to be around 256kbps for modern codecs, contributes probably the least of all the inputs to your listening. EQ, room treatment, mastering, and even listening at the end of the day vs the beginning will matter more. However, it is also one of the most affordable and easy to make changes, which is why I do it anyway. But if it came at a cost in another area, as others have raised, I would reconsider.

 

[masterhw]

What video? I’m just going by your claims of an MP3 ABX test.

several pages ago now but post #857

 

[sigbergaudio]

So you just admitted you didn't watch the video before vehemently commenting that such evidence doesn't exist and doing so with the utmost conviction.

The video needs to be watch in it's entirety, others have watched it in it's entirety, I have watched it in it's entirety. If you don't want to watch it, that is perfectly OK. We can just leave this conversation as it is and move on.

I resent your tone, can we please keep it civil? I have never claimed to have watched the video in its entirety, so what is there to admit? Is there or is there not a reference to Spotify Premium and/or 320kbps Vorbis in the video (I don't need the timestamp)? That is the explicit thing I have asked for a reference to all along.

Anyway, we are talking past each other. My bottom line is:

1. There is absolutely and scientifically an audible difference between various permutations of lossy vs lossless and bit rate with caveats.
2. Currently today, on Spotify, it is lossy and low bit rate only.
3. The caveats mentioned above is that you (a) need reference, such as AB switching, (b), you need to look for artifacts.
4. Without reference such as AB comparation, it is highly unlikely anyone can tell off the bat, what the track is lossy or lossless and it's bit rate.

1. I have never disputed this.
2. I have never disputed this, beyond our perhaps difference in opinion on the definition of "low".
3. I have never really disputed this either.
4. Sort of a side track, but fine.


I am confused why you refuse to discuss what you originally commented on (Spotify) in a thread that is about Spotify, but fine.

 

[kemmler3D]

You know you can rightclick and select "radio" on any song to get recommendations similar to that one?

Yes, I'm well aware, but when I do that, invariably it pushes a bunch of tracks I've heard before and/or fails to play much similar to the original track. I feel like Pandora did better in 2008.

I'm willing to bet $50 that no one can tell the difference between high res vs MP3 without doing back to back AB.

I'd take that bet if I was allowed to hunt far and wide for a test subject under the age of 20 who had highly trained themselves to do this, and is allowed to use an IEM of their choice. But I agree with the general thrust here.

 

[PristineSound]

I'd take that bet if I was allowed to hunt far and wide for a test subject under the age of 20 who had highly trained themselves to do this, and is allowed to use an IEM of their choice. But I agree with the general thrust here.

The offer is perpetually open as long as I am alive, able and have $50 to honor my bet.

 

[voodooless]

Is there or is there not a reference to Spotify Premium and/or 320kbps Vorbis in the video (I don't need the timestamp)? That is the explicit thing I have asked for a reference to all along.

Nope, there is not. It’s just a bunch of anecdotes showing Amir’s journey towards becoming a critical listener.

 

[holbob]

Indeed it is. That is why I have no issues leaving Qobuz for Spotify because of the superior recommendation and playlist engine.

So you keep saying. Yet I left spotify during a Qobuz trial years ago because of the superior recommendation engine, visible new release albums and far,far better playlist run off algorithm.

 

[holbob]

Here's the new playlist I discovered today. Some great new releases right there.

New in indie qobuz

 

[Brian Hall]

Currently Spotify is lossy, yes? Lossy is lossy, you lose information, period, end of story, case close.

Nothing important to the music is lost with 320kbps Vorbis. It is a very good codec.

There is an audible difference between high res vs CD quality, let alone CD quality vs lossy format.

I disagree. "Hi-Res" using the same master can not sound better than CD quality. 16/44.1 captures everything we can hear. There is no benefit to 24 bits over 16. There is no benefit to sampling rates higher than 44.1 khz. For playback. There are benefits to recording at higher bits/rates.

 

[Mort]

I suppose it's progress that we are arguing about a $5 a month cost that might/maybe audible and not $2k on a cable guaranteed to do nothing.

 

[PristineSound]

So you keep saying. Yet I left spotify during a Qobuz trial years ago because of the superior recommendation engine, visible new release albums and far,far better playlist run off algorithm.

You serious? Does Qobuz even have any recommendation engine? Do they even have engineers that work on this? Does Qobuz know how to spell recommendation enginer?

Funny.

 

[SKBubba]

Spotify will never release lossless. 99% of their users don't even know what it is, or much less care. The 1% who might pay more would be a rounding error.

 

[PristineSound]

Spotify will never release lossless. 99% of their users don't even know what it is, or much less care. The 1% who might pay more would be a rounding error.

I'm afraid there is a lot of truth to it.

 

[obsessive9119]

Bottom line, today's Spotify is both lossy and low bit rate.

Lossy, yes, Low bit rate, no. If you choose high quality it's 320kbs

You serious? Does Qobuz even have any recommendation engine? Do they even have engineers that work on this? Does Qobuz know how to spell recommendation enginer?

Funny.

I’m not sure, but they do have staff, who seem to do a pretty good job of curating interesting music.