Spotify Premium showing 44.1Khz 16bit in Volumio with Spotify connect 2. Is this really lossless or trickery?

[gags11]

My brother today was streaming his Spotify to my MiniDSP Volumio. The Volumio app was showing 44khz 16bit. Is this try CD quality stream or some conversion? Wondering if Spotify might have released their promised lossless.

 

[dc655321]

Compressed streams will expand to cd rate: 16 bits @ 44.1kHz.

 

[BitPerfect_]

Is this a verified information? I’m asking because compressed streams mp3 lossy for example, expanded to 16/44.1 lossless it’s still lossy in the end …

@gags11 would you please try to stream the same track via AirPlay in order to see the bitrate? If the phone is an iPhone and the MiniDSP supports AirPlay of course.

 

[gags11]

Is this a verified information? I’m asking because compressed streams mp3 lossy for example, expanded to 16/44.1 lossless it’s still lossy in the end …

@gags11 would you please try to stream the same track via AirPlay in order to see the bitrate? If the phone is an iPhone and the MiniDSP supports AirPlay of course.

Tried both, and both Airplay snd Spotify connect show up as 44k.1 kHz 16bit on SHD Volumio.

 

[BitPerfect_]

Sounds good. Thank you. SHD Volumio use AirPlay 1 or 2?

 

[gags11]

Is this a verified information? I’m asking because compressed streams mp3 lossy for example, expanded to 16/44.1 lossless it’s still lossy in the end …

@gags11 would you please try to stream the same track via AirPlay in order to see the bitrate? If the phone is an iPhone and the MiniDSP supports AirPlay of course.

Sounds good. Thank you. SHD Volumio use AirPlay 1 or 2?

SHD uses Airplay 1. Simple verification is when playing Airplay on SHD, musics gets interrupted when a phone call comes. When streaming Spotify connect2, phone calls do not get interrupted.

 

[BitPerfect_]

Indeed, this is how AirPlay works in general (e.g in Apple Music) putting the music on pause while we receive a phone call but imho if this will be the way of Spotify Hi-Fi to deliver lossless (16/44.1 via Spotify Connect and AirPlay 1 as well) we can use the other options described in the above link (crossfade, gapless, etc) which is Great!

If we are using Spotify Connect, these options are disabled. Also in Apple Music these options are unavailable at this moment when we are streaming to devices.

 

[gags11]

Indeed, this is how AirPlay works in general (e.g in Apple Music) putting the music on pause while we receive a phone call but imho if this will be the way of Spotify Hi-Fi to deliver lossless (16/44.1 via Spotify Connect and AirPlay 1 as well) we can use the other options described in the above link (crossfade, gapless, etc) which is Great!

If we are using Spotify Connect, these options are disabled. Also in Apple Music these options are unavailable at this moment when we are streaming to devices.

Airplay 2 does not put music on pause while answering calls. There have been questions regarding true transmission quality of Airplay2. However, my take is if the receiving device is truly integrated, it will capture the direct stream vs streaming to phone then to device.

Time will tell, but for now, AirPlay works fine for Apple Music. I’m waiting to see what Spotify Hi-Fi will offer, and most likely I will get that service. And I really don’t care about gapless playback…. I change most music half way through, lol.

 

[gags11]

Compressed streams will expand to cd rate: 16 bits @ 44.1kHz.

Is this an issue with how DAC interprets the compressed audio? Roon, for example can show instantaneous bit rate. Is there a way we can run Spotify though a device that shows exact transmission bit rate?

 

[FooYatChong]

Most MP3's are 44khz (sample rate) and 16bit (bith dept). Where they differ from CD is the bitrate: 1,411.2 kbit/s for 44/16 uncompressed audio down to max 320 kbit/s for MP3.

 

[BitPerfect_]

Airplay 2 does not put music on pause while answering calls.

Oh, sorry, I thought that it’s general. Thanks for sharing.

 

[voodooless]

Compressed streams will expand to cd rate: 16 bits @ 44.1kHz.

They often will, but it is no iron rule. For instance Apple lossy compression uses 24-bit files where available, and can decompress to 24-bit files.

Most lossy compression really has no fixed bit depth.

Back to what the DAC shows: that has no bearing on what compression was used (if any). It just shows the properties of the decompressed stream that goes into the DAC chip.

 

[DanielT]

Finally, or maybe not?

No clarification about possible price increases regarding Spotify lossless? Will Spotify dare to raise the price? There is tough competition now between streaming providers.

Spotify themselves say that there is an opportunity to upgrade. It does not say that it will happen automatically for subscribers of the current Spotify Premium.

Beginning later this year, Premium subscribers in select markets will be able to upgrade their sound quality to Spotify HiFi and listen to their favorite songs the way artists intended.

1. Spotify HiFi will begin rolling out in select markets later this year, and we will have more details to share soon.

That article was published FEBRUARY 22, 2021. ... more details.... soon ... kiss my a ..

https://newsroom.spotify.com/2021-02-22/five-things-to-know-about-spotify-hifi/

 

[Joe Smith]

Spotify certainly knows how to keep a secret a secret. I've given up holding my breath, it seems like they are going to let September go by with no additional news... As a Premium Family subscriber, I am looking forward to higher quality but at no or a minimal price increase...

 

[DVDdoug]

The Volumio app was showing 44khz 16bit.

The stream has to be decompressed somewhere along the way. I assume this is done before the Volumio sees the data. Usually when you decompress you get the original sample rate but the bit-depth is arbitrary because (most) lossy formats don't store individual samples and there is no fixed bit-depth.

 

[gags11]

Thanks for all the replies and explanations!

 

[BitPerfect_]

Most MP3's are 44khz (sample rate) and 16bit (bith dept). Where they differ from CD is the bitrate: 1,411.2 kbit/s for 44/16 uncompressed audio down to max 320 kbit/s for MP3.

How about now? it appears PCM 44.1 kHz not MP3, which makes me thing about testing the lossless format.

 

[bennetng]

Formats like mp3 only have bit rate and sample rate. Bit depth is defined by the decoder, which decodes to PCM.

Dithering is a Mathematical Process - NOT a psychoacoustic process.

a good question might be is that even relevant with sigma-delta technology vs classical multi-bit. Absolutely true, but as you know, my pet interests are vintage and often classic CD players with multibit D/As, some with individual trimming of the top 1-4 bits for minimizing THD at low levels...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Dithering is a Mathematical Process - NOT a psychoacoustic process.

a good question might be is that even relevant with sigma-delta technology vs classical multi-bit. Absolutely true, but as you know, my pet interests are vintage and often classic CD players with multibit D/As, some with individual trimming of the top 1-4 bits for minimizing THD at low levels...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Zoom F6 Portable Field Recorder Review

No, I did not find it out myself, it is advertised as such, for example in this review: https://www.solidstatesound.co.uk/sony_pcm-d100.htm As I said previously, I posted the full review archive with notes to describe the test procedure in this post...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[BitPerfect_]

Make sense, the strange thing is that if we listen Internet radio for example, will appear MP3 44.1 kHz.
More than that, If I play a wav file using the same app (MusicCast) will apear PCM 44.1 kHz.

So why doesn't show MP3 44.1 kHz in Spotify case too?

 

[bennetng]

If the app shows the original format (e.g. mp3) then the app itself is probably the decoder. If you know they are other formats but it shows PCM, then the app could be receiving uncompressed data from the upstream decoder which is not exposed to end user explicitly. In this case the app itself does not know what the original format is.

I don't use this app, just my experience of using other software.