solderdude
Grand Contributor
Yep, that happens when people compare sighted...
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Splashed out on a Hifiman Arya and not impressed
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The presence of a dealer making helpful suggestions helps too.
solderdude
Grand Contributor
Perfect measurements suggests 'clinical sound' which you cannot unhear either and why some people are disappointed.
nerdiejack
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I mean, in the end it's about the use case and personal taste. If someone likes 'clinical' sound, it's fine with me and that person can be really happy because it saves quite some cash in my experience.
But after reading through some reviews here, it seems there is a certain number bias present. I mean it's just plain obvious to me that the Burson Soloist 3xGT has way more detail and way more soundstage than a A90. And it should have it. It's way more expensive!
But after reading through some reviews here, it seems there is a certain number bias present. I mean it's just plain obvious to me that the Burson Soloist 3xGT has way more detail and way more soundstage than a A90. And it should have it. It's way more expensive!
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solderdude
Grand Contributor
The real question, from a scientific standpoint, would be WHY that would be the case, and whether or not this has been determined in a level matched blind test with statistical relevance.
As this cannot possibly be the case here you may find a lot of 'uh-huhs' being present in the minds of a lot of ASR readers.
Like in your first post you used the words 'to me' which is totally valid as it is your experience. The quoted line above is stated as a fact.
You could improve that post by adding the 'to me' or 'IME'.
Then again... in the end personal enjoyment is the goal so the 'whatever floats your boat' is applicable for that.
I agree that in such cases the most important thing is audition, audition, audition and choose what you like best in your budget.
nerdiejack
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I agree with your feedback. I edited my post. Furthermore, I guess when it comes to music, scientific evidence is quite hard to achieve because there is only so much testing gear on the market but around 7 billion different ears. So becoming philosophical is mankind measuring for itself or to justify the existence/nonexistence of gear.The real question, from a scientific standpoint, would be WHY that would be the case, and whether or not this has been determined in a level matched blind test with statistical relevance.
As this cannot possibly be the case here you may find a lot of 'uh-huhs' being present in the minds of a lot of ASR readers.
Like in your first post you used the words 'to me' which is totally valid as it is your experience. The quoted line above is stated as a fact.
You could improve that post by adding the 'to me' or 'IME'.
Then again... in the end personal enjoyment is the goal so the 'whatever floats your boat' is applicable for that.
I agree that in such cases the most important thing is audition, audition, audition and choose what you like best in your budget.
solderdude
Grand Contributor
Nah... the A90 and a Burson can be tested blind, level matched and with statistical clarity.
This, however, is not in the interest of the dealers of expensive audiophile/audiophool gear.
Besides, when properly done it requires a substantial investment in time, effort and a switch box that does the blind part for you.
Similar tests in the past are pretty conclusive as well. That's why you don't see any 'official test results' from the subjective guys that actually own such a device. When tested properly the perceived differences can not be proven to exist.
This, however, is not in the interest of the dealers of expensive audiophile/audiophool gear.
Besides, when properly done it requires a substantial investment in time, effort and a switch box that does the blind part for you.
Similar tests in the past are pretty conclusive as well. That's why you don't see any 'official test results' from the subjective guys that actually own such a device. When tested properly the perceived differences can not be proven to exist.
Not really. Usually the sighted result is that one of the devices is miles ahead with all kinds of superior attributes: tighter, more clarity, better soundstage etc.
If after a few switches you have a real hard time hearing which one is playing then you should be done already.
If 99% of differences disappear in a blind test you already know you are being bamboozled by your brain and you should take a deep breath, get back home and thing again if you really should be spending thousands on some improvement you might just barely notice when concentrating 100% on few second clips, switching rapidly between options.
solderdude
Grand Contributor
It depends on who you want to convince.
Even after a few switches you would still need to do enough attempts for statistical relevance and to ensure one does not create false positives you need to carefully level match anyway. Doing this properly requires accurate measurements and the possibility to adjust L and R channels, ensure volume control and switches work without tell-tale signs etc.
Mess one of those up just a little bit and there you have someone that claims he can pass a well performed blind test or cast some doubt.
Nah... doing a real blind test (not between music files) is anything but easy and you are not done after a few switches.
Even after a few switches you would still need to do enough attempts for statistical relevance and to ensure one does not create false positives you need to carefully level match anyway. Doing this properly requires accurate measurements and the possibility to adjust L and R channels, ensure volume control and switches work without tell-tale signs etc.
Mess one of those up just a little bit and there you have someone that claims he can pass a well performed blind test or cast some doubt.
Nah... doing a real blind test (not between music files) is anything but easy and you are not done after a few switches.
Yeah, doing a credible blind test that passes peer review is hard whereas testing blind is easy.
Almost no one needs the former but most people who do not yet understand the expected magnitude of differences between electronics can benefit from the latter.
Discussions about hifi equipment differences is in my opinion still somewhat intellectually dishonest in a way that if some device can be told apart from other device in any kind of controlled testing then all bets are off and wild stories describing the differences are completely acceptable, even for objectivists. If someone suggests that these stories seem to be exaggerated a bit they can be silenced just by saying they lack the critical listening skills and raw passion for sound which makes even seemingly insignificant things sound huge to the "advanced" audio hobbyist.
IMO that holds true also with equipment where there are very real and noticeable differences such as speakers and headphones. Well, not so much with acoustic treatments for some reason, almost nobody cares about that.
Almost no one needs the former but most people who do not yet understand the expected magnitude of differences between electronics can benefit from the latter.
Discussions about hifi equipment differences is in my opinion still somewhat intellectually dishonest in a way that if some device can be told apart from other device in any kind of controlled testing then all bets are off and wild stories describing the differences are completely acceptable, even for objectivists. If someone suggests that these stories seem to be exaggerated a bit they can be silenced just by saying they lack the critical listening skills and raw passion for sound which makes even seemingly insignificant things sound huge to the "advanced" audio hobbyist.
IMO that holds true also with equipment where there are very real and noticeable differences such as speakers and headphones. Well, not so much with acoustic treatments for some reason, almost nobody cares about that.
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