Spinorama MoFi Sourcepoint 888 vs MoFi Sourcepoint V10 ME Data + general help needed choosing a speaker

[PlanI]

Hi all, long time lurker and first time poster here

I've been "researching" various speakers and speaker + sub combinations for several months now. In the meantime, I've upgraded my amp from a Marantz PM-11S3 to a Boxem Dual Mono A 4222/E2M, as per info on this forum - superb decision! Source is streaming on Wiim Ultra - even better decision

I've limited my options to either:
a) MoFi Sourcepoint V10 ME or
b) KEF R7 Meta + 2 subs (SVS SB-2000 Pro, most likely... or XYZ 10.17)
c) I was also entertaining the idea of active cardioid Buchardt A700 SE

Currently, I have Focal Aria 948, which I feel are fine, but I would like a little more precision and most importantly bass extension. Not much, around 15% if I had to quantify I have a 10m x 5m (speaker wall) x 3m (ceiling) room, shared space of living room + kitchen, so I would definitely try to avoid subs if possible. Especially because they would also have to be positioned on the speaker wall, 1/4 of lenght (between the speakers). Hardwood floor (concrete underneath), lots of furniture, medium sized windows on the right longer wall (when looking from the listening position).

My listening position is about 3,5m from the speakers (same as distance between them) and I have an annoying standing wave in the seated position, but not while standing up, though! Listening position, room treatment and sub positioning (even with wireless) is non-negotiable unfortunately :/

I realize that 2 subs would give me better chances of eliminating that standing wave null and adding a little bit more bass, but I would like to explore the stereo option with MoFi V10 ME first....

...and now, finally, to the point

When I go to Spinorama and filter by High measurment, Floorstanders, Passive and Sort by Score with EQ - I get the photo below.

1) how come the Tonality and Flatness difference is so drastic, in favour of the 888, when Erin's been raving about the V10 ME just as much as 888 - and even more confusing, how come the 888 has more bass extension?

 

[staticV3]

The 888 does indeed have deeper bass extension, flatter on-axis response, and a more agreeable on-axis slope:


Which explains the difference in preference score.

For more details, see here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...thread-audio-first-designs.65855/post-2442926

In no way does that mean that you should dismiss Erin's opinion and buy strictly based on Preference score though.

The author of the paper/inventor of the Preference score said himself that people put way too much weight behind it and that Harman don't use the score internally anyway.

Ideally, you should base your purchases on the actual measurement data and not some reductive scoring numbers derived from them.

Edit:
Just noticed that I mixed up the V10 Master Edition and 10 Master Edition, will correct shortly.

 

[Everett T]

The Buchardt A700 won't give you the low frequency SPL compared to the 888, despite the low F10.

 

[TheKoC]

More bass extention often comes at lower sensitivity, as is the case here with the 888. You will need more power.
If you look at the linearity graphs in Erins videos you will see that the V10 holds up better, meaning it will hold the SPLs on low frequencies better than the 888 as you turn them up louder.
The price of the 888 in the Spinorama graphic is also not correct, it is more like 2700 a piece. It still looks like a fantastic speaker, unless max SPL is a deciding factor for you (you have quite a large room though) it might be preferable to the V10. But I think if you play at high volume the V10s will feel like they have more bass.

 

[PlanI]

The Buchardt A700 won't give you the low frequency SPL compared to the 888, despite the low F10.

That is what I thought, and why I put it last. Even though, it would be the most elegant solution! But l yeah, I think they would be too small for the room and desired SPL..

 

[PlanI]

More bass extention often comes at lower sensitivity, as is the case here with the 888. You will need more power.
If you look at the linearity graphs in Erins videos you will see that the V10 holds up better, meaning it will hold the SPLs on low frequencies better than the 888 as you turn them up louder.
The price of the 888 in the Spinorama graphic is also not correct, it is more like 2700 a piece. It still looks like a fantastic speaker, unless max SPL is a deciding factor for you (you have quite a large room though) it might be preferable to the V10. But I think if you play at high volume the V10s will feel like they have more bass.

Interesting… I believe the sensitivity should not pose an issue, as my amp is rated at 210w/420w for 8ohm/4ohm loads.

So, if you’re saying the 888 will play lower and flatter at moderate levels, I’m all for it The difference in price currently is almost double, due to some discounts!

+1 for the WAF, because…. smaller coffin!

 

[TheKoC]

Interesting… I believe the sensitivity should not pose an issue, as my amp is rated at 210w/420w for 8ohm/4ohm loads.

So, if you’re saying the 888 will play lower and flatter at moderate levels, I’m all for it The difference in price currently is almost double, due to some discounts!

+1 for the WAF, because…. smaller coffin!

Yeah, I assume in a living room setup you are not going to play movies at Dolby Atmos Reference Levels
The Boxem Purifi Amps should be great to power them.

 

[PlanI]

One more thing… or three, in fact.

I listen mostly to Rock music, quite often hip hop and electronic. Not a fan of classical or jazz music

Will I feel/hear an audible difference with the 888 compared to existing Focal Aria 948, in the low end? I know they extend several Hz lower, but the thing worrying me is the amount and cone area of woofers, which is pretty much the same?

Basically, I’m trying to get your opinions on option b) outlined above - Kef R7 Meta + 2 SVS SB-2000 Pro. So, I’m attaching the floor plan here with positioning of current/future speakers (L & R, toed in IRL, ofc) and potential Subs (circles). Would I be able to maximise the bass response from the two subs if this is their only possible position? And by only tinkering around with rudimentary Room Correction in Wiim?

 

[PGansz]

For your room size I'd say get the R7's with subs. Wait for a sale bc they're expensive right now. The R7's have lower distortion than the 888's at loud volume levels.

 

[analogonly]

Love KEF, but have you considered Revel?

 

[Everett T]

One more thing… or three, in fact.

I listen mostly to Rock music, quite often hip hop and electronic. Not a fan of classical or jazz music

Will I feel/hear an audible difference with the 888 compared to existing Focal Aria 948, in the low end? I know they extend several Hz lower, but the thing worrying me is the amount and cone area of woofers, which is pretty much the same?

Basically, I’m trying to get your opinions on option b) outlined above - Kef R7 Meta + 2 SVS SB-2000 Pro. So, I’m attaching the floor plan here with positioning of current/future speakers (L & R, toed in IRL, ofc) and potential Subs (circles). Would I be able to maximise the bass response from the two subs if this is their only possible position? And by only tinkering around with rudimentary Room Correction in Wiim?

View attachment 518958

Keep in mind if you do add subs, the SB2000 isn't gonna perform all that well in that large of space down low compared to the PB2000 (or higher model) or other ported subs. The SB3000 would be the minimum sealed sub is choose from SVS, and even then you're not benefiting from any room gain.

If you call SVS they can give you recommendations but I'm sure they'll say pretty much the same thing based on your music preferences.

 

[PlanI]

Love KEF, but have you considered Revel?

Well yes, in fact I have. As there is a really nice (almost mint condition) used F208 on sale here, for literally half the price of the Kef. However, I’ve been reading up on the wide vs narrow directivity (offerd by the coaxial driver) which should suit me better, as I’m listening music in my sweet spot, 90% of the time. And I should avoid Revel due to wise dispersion and the influence those windows might have on the reflections?

Mind you, this is my layman’s understanding of this, I could be overthinking this altogether… so should I re-consider the F208?

 

[analogonly]

I started out opposed to Revel's design philosophy. One song disabused me of my biases. Have to hear it in your room.

 

[PlanI]

Keep in mind if you do add subs, the SB2000 isn't gonna perform all that well in that large of space down low compared to the PB2000 (or higher model) or other ported subs. The SB3000 would be the minimum sealed sub is choose from SVS, and even then you're not benefiting from any room gain.

If you call SVS they can give you recommendations but I'm sure they'll say pretty much the same thing based on your music preferences.

Yeah, not going down that rabbit hole again Considered a lot of Subs, but as I said, I only want to benefit from a bit more uumph down low, not pressurise the entire room, as the Focals are already doing that quite ok on their own (when I’m in the standing position, but not while sitting down).

2 x 3000 Pro would be ridiculously expensive here in Europe (more then 3.000 EUR) so that’s out the question - but I am willing to consider the ported XTZ 10.17, which is even cheaper than the 2000 pro here. Not able to go up to 12.17, because of size constraits ( bookshelf at the height of 45cm along a good part of that wall). However, I am drawn to the SVS because of the app and the fact I can EQ it on the fly, from the listening position.

Mind you, this is strictly a music listening setup, not home theater.

 

[dasherzx]

I demoed the mofi’s whole line last year. My subjective impressions were that they sound the same bass-capability wise and the v10 being boomier because as usual almost no one in this hobby seem to give importance to eq, lol. I don’t know if the v10 will be better for an even larger room but at this room size the 888 goes toe to toe and maybe even better.

Anyway at the time only the 888 measurements were available and because they sound subjectively the same in this room + the v10 costing almost double my decision was pretty simple…

 

[Chromatischism]

I am a standmount + subs person because you get so much more for your money, so long as your speaker choice can handle the output you need without compression or distortion.

If you're set on Mofi, then I would do the Sourcepoint 8 with two 12" subs. My preference is low-tuned ported but if you will never watch a movie with LFE, sealed is fine.

The 888 I would do if my system needed to get louder, like for movies.

I might prefer the upcoming Buchardt S400 MK3 though with its larger drivers, with 2 15" ported subs for a best of both worlds sort of setup.

If you can get them, the Ascilabs would also work well.

While KEF are great, I don't think the R7M would be a great value.

Likewise for the otherwise awesome A700. I don't think it's the speaker for me. Too much money that could be used elsewhere.

 

[dasherzx]

For your room size I'd say get the R7's with subs. Wait for a sale bc they're expensive right now. The R7's have lower distortion than the 888's at loud volume levels.

I have an r3 meta too and while they are smooth sounding they really can’t do bass and sub integration is hard.
I went with an 888 and a cheap 15 inch sub (now 2) crossed down low at 35. Works for me that way too.

 

[PlanI]

I demoed the mofi’s whole line last year. My subjective impressions were that they sound the same bass-capability wise and the v10 being boomier because as usual almost no one in this hobby seem to give importance to eq, lol. I don’t know if the v10 will be better for an even larger room but at this room size the 888 goes toe to toe and maybe even better.

Anyway at the time only the 888 measurements were available and because they sound subjectively the same in this room + the v10 costing almost double my decision was pretty simple…View attachment 519008View attachment 519009

Nice info, thank you!

 

[Chromatischism]

I have an r3 meta too and while they are smooth sounding they really can’t do bass and sub integration is hard.
I went with an 888 and a cheap 15 inch sub (now 2) crossed down low at 35. Works for me that way too.

Integration is not that hard if you are willing to move the subs to where they work best. Then DSP can make short work of them. 35 Hz is not optimal...

 

[PlanI]

Integration is not that hard if you are willing to move the subs to where they work best. Then DSP can make short work of them. 35 Hz is not optimal...

Yeah, but this is one of my main concerns… the potential subs could only be positioned as show on the floorplan above (S1 and S2), or dragged left or right down that wall…. Would that work? Or is there no way of knowing without trying?