Speedwoofer 12s High Pass Line Out

[tmike]

Hey guys,

I've been using the Speedwoofer 12s crossover for my mains and it significantly reduces the SNR. None of my amps have a crossover so I'll have to think of something else. I used a Topping 2xE2 to make the measurements.

Measurement after Fosi P4 Pre-amp (89 SNR):

Measurement on speedwoofer 12s Line Out (72 SNR):

 

[ZolaIII]

It literally says: "Independent adjustable line-level high-pass outputs (30-250Hz)" RCA I/0 and cuple of DSP (preset) tunings.

 

[staticV3]

Pretty common sadly.

You could run your Mains full-range plugged into the same source as your Speedwoofer and just turn down the sub's crossover knob to match as best as possible.

Or you could buy an external DSP for sub integration, like a WiiM Amp/WiiM Ultra, or a miniDSP.

 

[DVDdoug]

Can you hear the noise?

...Or you can buy a crossover or a lot of people here use a miniDSP.

 

[Laika2]

You have a crossover, you just need to rewire it.

Use the speaker Level in and out, run the wires from the amp into the inputs, run new wire from the outputs to the speakers, you now have access to all functions including a crossover. You will need to set the cross on the back of the sub since you can't do it elsewhere but it should work just like a line out with a preamp or receiver crossover. I used to own one of those, great for the price.

 

[ZolaIII]

Put music DSP preset, form crossover with mic and carry on.

RSL Speedwoofer 12S Powered Subwoofer

RSL Speedwoofer 12S

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

 

[ZolaIII]

To do it yourself you nead multichannel unbalanced DAC or ADC/DSP/DAC and procesor/front end.
What's the power amplifiers objective performance and line in SNR?
Does reproduction involve desktop PC?

 

[tmike]

It literally says: "Independent adjustable line-level high-pass outputs (30-250Hz)" RCA I/0 and cuple of DSP (preset) tunings.
View attachment 515424

Yeah, I had the knob turned all the way counterclockwise until it clicked off when I did the test. I actually keep it in movie mode, the music mode has a strange curve and creates a dip in my system around 100Hz.

Frequency Response Curves

I bought the Topping to use as an system wide EQ and also as a recording interface for my turntable.

Rotel A12MKII:
Maximum Power Output
120W/Ch (4Ω)

Continuous Power Output
60W/Ch (8Ω)

Total Harmonic Distortion (THD)
<0.018%

Frequency Response
Line Level Inputs: 10Hz - 100kHz, 0±0.5dB
Digital Inputs: 10Hz - 90kHz, 0±2dB
Phono Input: 20Hz - 20kHz, 0±0.5dB

S/N Ratio (IHF "A" Weighted)
Line Level Inputs: 100dB
Digital Inputs: 103dB
Phono Input: 90dB

 

[tmike]

Pretty common sadly.

You could run your Mains full-range plugged into the same source as your Speedwoofer and just turn down the sub's crossover knob to match as best as possible.

Or you could buy an external DSP for sub integration, like a WiiM Amp/WiiM Ultra, or a miniDSP.

Yeah, I was trying to avoid having to get a minidsp. I wonder how much worse the distortion is when listening at high volumes without the high pass on the tiny 4"woofers on the Emotiva XB1s.

 

[tmike]

You have a crossover, you just need to rewire it.

Use the speaker Level in and out, run the wires from the amp into the inputs, run new wire from the outputs to the speakers, you now have access to all functions including a crossover. You will need to set the cross on the back of the sub since you can't do it elsewhere but it should work just like a line out with a preamp or receiver crossover. I used to own one of those, great for the price.

The Speedwoofer 12s only has speaker level inputs, no output.

 

[tmike]

Can you hear the noise?

...Or you can buy a crossover or a lot of people here use a miniDSP.

Honesty, I haven't listened that closely but doesn't it also affect distortion? My short term solution is just to get a FMOD 100Hz high pass filter for the mains and use the preout to the subs on the Fosi P4.

 

[Chrispy]

You have a crossover, you just need to rewire it.

Use the speaker Level in and out, run the wires from the amp into the inputs, run new wire from the outputs to the speakers, you now have access to all functions including a crossover. You will need to set the cross on the back of the sub since you can't do it elsewhere but it should work just like a line out with a preamp or receiver crossover. I used to own one of those, great for the price.

How does this provide a crossover? Sub will just be a lpf.

 

[ZolaIII]

Yeah, I was trying to avoid having to get a minidsp. I wonder how much worse the distortion is when listening at high volumes without the high pass on the tiny 4"woofers on the Emotiva XB1s.

Quite honestly I don't know. Judging by a 1" bigger cousin you will need to cut lot higher than 100 Hz to have it let's say relaxed as your sub in boundary mode B1+ needs it @ 150 Hz.
Nice amp by the way of course that's too much for only one sub (everything above 80 Hz it is and even then you might hear some localisation). Sub is really fine and music mode is tuned so good that I am impressed (which isn't happening that often). Would be a shame to use it any other way. Erin's data is better than Audioholics that much I am sure of. Is there a reason for such tiny mains? Somehow you need to improve there the most. Two chenel DAC simply won't work and you don't need one with space performance either, just 100 dB SINAD for mains and less for sub/sub's.

 

[tmike]

Quite honestly I don't know. Judging by a 1" bigger cousin you will need to cut lot higher than 100 Hz to have it let's say relaxed as your sub in boundary mode B1+ needs it @ 150 Hz.
Nice amp by the way of course that's too much for only one sub (everything above 80 Hz it is and even then you might hear some localisation). Sub is really fine and music mode is tuned so good that I am impressed (which isn't happening that often). Would be a shame to use it any other way. Erin's data is better than Audioholics that much I am sure of. Is there a reason for such tiny mains? Somehow you need to improve there the most. Two chenel DAC simply won't work and you don't need one with space performance either, just 100 dB SINAD for mains and less for sub/sub's.

Well, I spend too much money at once. (You know what I mean.) I would have preferred to buy the XB2s but they were out of stock as well. The other problem is that the XB1s fit the size of the TV and the width of the wall I have it on. I have another 8" speaker and it looks too big. When I get the 100 Hz high-pass filter and make a measurement with REW again I'll show you what I mean by the music mode having a dip.

I am not completely sure as you know how these things go with A/B testing but I think bypassing the sub DSP does sound more clear and realistic.

 

[Laika2]

The Speedwoofer 12s only has speaker level inputs, no output.

Sorry my bad, had mine hooked up rca, thought the option was there, brain rot on my part.

 

[Laika2]

How does this provide a crossover? Sub will just be a lpf.

Mines long gone, thought it had old school lines in and out for older receivers. My bad,

 

[Chrispy]

Mines long gone, thought it had old school lines in and out for older receivers. My bad,

Most of the ones that, if they can provide an actual crossover, do it via the line level inputs/outputs afaik.....which was quite fine with old receivers that had pre-out/main-in connections. Those with speaker level inputs/outputs were more about wiring convenience, haven't seen one that provided a high pass for the speakers....what sub did you have?

 

[Laika2]

Most of the ones that, if they can provide an actual crossover, do it via the line level inputs/outputs afaik.....which was quite fine with old receivers that had pre-out/main-in connections. Those with speaker level inputs/outputs were more about wiring convenience, haven't seen one that provided a high pass for the speakers....what sub did you have?

You are giving away my age, yea, I remember those days, my first few subs had them ... when the main source by far was VHS tape and Dolby Surround. To answer your question I bought a 12s when they were introduced when they had a promo for $650. I run a Denon 6800 in full preamp mode and had a bigger better sub but at that price I was curious and knew it would be a easy sale. I of course used the receiver/pre amp for the crossover, I remember seeing red and black jacks on the back and thought, interesting old school, connections. Since I was crossing at the receiver and quickly unhooking my main sub and jacking into the RCA I never gave it a second thought or really looked at the jacks.

There are some newer models still that have speaker line in and outs, though I can't think of any of note that I would be interested in. Golden Ear's forcefeld line still has them. Deftech made them till about a year ago, 800, 1000 models, but whoever the parent company is has froze Deftech in time. Those models were in production for 20 years. I have heard Rel still has them but do not know if that is true,

I did get a laugh from this whole thing, yesterday I'm asking myself how come the long time experts with tons of posts and likes are making this so complicated. Then the comments starting flowing and it switched to why am I being such a dumbass. Oh well, one of those days.

 

[Chrispy]

You are giving away my age, yea, I remember those days, my first few subs had them ... when the main source by far was VHS tape and Dolby Surround. To answer your question I bought a 12s when they were introduced when they had a promo for $650. I run a Denon 6800 in full preamp mode and had a bigger better sub but at that price I was curious and knew it would be a easy sale. I of course used the receiver/pre amp for the crossover, I remember seeing red and black jacks on the back and thought, interesting old school, connections. Since I was crossing at the receiver and quickly unhooking my main sub and jacking into the RCA I never gave it a second thought or really looked at the jacks.

There are some newer models still that have speaker line in and outs, though I can't think of any of note that I would be interested in. Golden Ear's forcefeld line still has them. Deftech made them till about a year ago, 800, 1000 models, but whoever the parent company is has froze Deftech in time. Those models were in production for 20 years. I have heard Rel still has them but do not know if that is true,

I did get a laugh from this whole thing, yesterday I'm asking myself how come the long time experts with tons of posts and likes are making this so complicated. Then the comments starting flowing and it switched to why am I being such a dumbass. Oh well, one of those days.

LOL I didn't see, or even know of a sub for many years after getting into home audio in the early 70s. Those subs you mention with speaker line in/out I think had no high pass for speakers, tho. I just looked at a few of GoldenEar's "subs" and they don't seem to have speaker level inputs any more; personally would never buy GoldenEar due to their parent, Fraudioquest. The DT sub 800 at least does appear to offer a high pass on the speaker level connection. It's just not a feature that's particularly common I think, at least now.

 

[Laika2]

LOL I didn't see, or even know of a sub for many years after getting into home audio in the early 70s. Those subs you mention with speaker line in/out I think had no high pass for speakers, tho. I just looked at a few of GoldenEar's "subs" and they don't seem to have speaker level inputs any more; personally would never buy GoldenEar due to their parent, Fraudioquest. The DT sub 800 at least does appear to offer a high pass on the speaker level connection. It's just not a feature that's particularly common I think, at least now.

I sure don't remember high pass, my old ones back in that day either had no phase knob and at best had a 180 - 0 switch, no other phase choice that 0 or 80.

I owned Golden Ear Triton 1R's for 3 months, the shortest I have ever owned speakers. Biggest loss I ever took on speakers that were essentially new and spotless.

My first home audio was a Pioneer Centrex with a external 8 Track recorder. (Pre cassette cars had 8 Tracks at best at the time.) Suddenly everyone wanted me to tape albums to the 8 Track. I would reorder tracks if at all possible to not switch tracks in the middle of a song. Word sort of got out when some of my tapes were handed around and there were no clipped or songs with a big click in the middle and a few seconds of silence till it picked up the next track. We all hated those songs that would fade out in the middle, jump to the next track and fade back in.

Have a great day buddy.