Speakers vs Headphones for flat response

[ermiaudio]

Hi, I was looking to buy a my first 2.1 system (+Wiim for EQ) but after researching for weeks, does it even make sense to buy speakers if you want a flat frequency response?

Ignoring the question of what is a flat target curve, is it even possible to hit any curve below 500hz with the way room modes affect your sound?

Looking at blogs and some videos from Acoustics Insider and other people, it seems that if you are not located in the "sweet spot" with at least 10 bass traps, and an speaker that takes really heavy EQ well it's just not possible. But I see all over the world audio producers using speakers to show people all over a room what they are doing, I'm missing something or is a flat frequency response only achievable with headphones?

I only used headphones until now (audeze, hifiman, etc...) So I'm not really experienced with speakers

 

[Soria Moria]

Loudspeakers with room-corrective EQ can give you extremely flat sound

 

[ermiaudio]

Loudspeakers with room-corrective EQ can give you extremely flat sound

Even with acoustic nuls? As far as I've read those can't be EQ up

 

[DVDdoug]

I prefer speakers in a room. And a large room is even better! I've had my speakers in a dance hall a couple of times and they sounded way better than in my living room.

For me, it doesn't have to be perfect as long as it sounds good!

Even with acoustic nuls? As far as I've read those can't be EQ up

No. Where the direct and reflected waves are canceling each other it takes "infinite" power and "infinitely large" woofers to overcome the cancelation. There is something called waveforming that sort-of does something like that. I haven't studied it, but it seems to involve lots of subwoofers and subwoofers doing active cancelation before the waves can be reflected.

But the bumps are more annoying than the dips and they can (mostly) be fixed with EQ.

"Perfection" is difficult but you can do reasonably well with bass traps or a large room. But, "large" means a the size of a performance venue.

Ignoring those "small room bass problems" below the Schroeder frequency, speakers that are flat in an anechoic chamber aren't perfectly flat in real rooms (or studios). A slightly-downward slope is what they hear in the studio and that's what you generally want to reproduce at home. They have EQ'd the recording to sound good with that response. If you EQ flat, the highs will be boosted (relative to how it was mixed & mastered) and it will sound slightly "bright".

Our perception is different with headphones and the Harman curve approximates what good speakers sound like in a good room. Flat headphones won't sound good!

And generally, headphones are simply a different experience and very few people get a good soundstage illusion (Headphone soundstage survey). The survey really surprised be because although I don't get a good soundstage, everybody seems to talk about it.

You also experience bass differently with headphones. You can't feel the bass in your body like bass in a room. But strong-deep-smooth bass is easier & more affordable with headphones.

 

[RayDunzl]

I have nice speakers and a nice headphone.

They serve different purposes.

The speakers are basically used 24/7, even when I'm not at home... the headphones... I really can't remember the last time I had them on,

Use what you prefer.

 

[RayDunzl]

Even with acoustic nuls? As far as I've read those can't be EQ up

I have a deep acoustic null around 48 Hz when measured with both L and R speakers playing a test sweep.

It is just a little dip if only L or R speaker plays.

L, R, and both speakers playing a sweep

The null is measurably there if the music has mono bass.
.
The null tends to disappear when the bass is mixed in stereo.

Either way, I really never noticed it before or after measuring it,

So I don't worry about it.

 

[Keith_W]

Welcome to ASR!

The first thing to realize about those nulls that you see in a freq response curve - you don't hear them. This is because most of the nulls are due to the specific position of the measurement microphone. The mic is a single point in space. Your head has two ears, and you move your head. So those nulls perceptually disappear. About the only nulls that don't disappear are very wide and very deep low frequency nulls.

It's not as if headphones don't have problems, there are bass issues as well depending on the seal, fit, whether you wear glasses, and clamping pressure. The high frequency response you hear may substantially deviate from measured specs depending on the shape of your ears, width of the auditory canal, and so on. So, just because a headphone complies with the Harman curve on a test fixture, it is no guarantee that the headphones will reproduce the same response on your head. And there is no way for you to know, unless you have the ability to take in-ear measurements of headphones and produce your own EQ.

Speakers and headphones give you a different experience. I own both. Speakers give you much greater spaciousness, and you can feel the sound. I muuuuuuch prefer listening to speakers. Headphones are great for shutting the world out. So I listen to headphones on public transport or on the plane.

 

[pathtonowhere]

The bass from the headphones is hugely flatter than the speaker. The bass in a room is basically a series of resonances and nulls, it looks like a jigsaw on a graph. The speaker graphs that look flat or flattish are flattened by software. And this is not the biggest problem, the biggest problem is the standing waves, the resonances of the room, which can vary with room size and wall material. In Europe, speaker bass is usually acceptable at best, because of the brick/concrete walls. In US or some parts of Europe, the bass can get pretty good, because of the less dense materials that let the bass through and don't generate that many resonances, although this kind of walls can sometimes vibrate at higher upper-bass/lower midrange frequencies.

Also, reflections muddy the rest of the spectrum in a room, too, but this can be easy to treat with absorption.

All in all, even with the huge disadvantages of speaker bass, I still listen to speakers because the you can feel the music differently. Sometimes I use the headphones to hear the music more clearly, without reflections and resonances.

 

[WXfreak]

Speakers and headphones give you a different experience. I own both. Speakers give you much greater spaciousness, and you can feel the sound.

Can this be measured?

 

[Keith_W]

Can this be measured?

Not without a special microphone that is able to detect the direction of sound, no.

 

[Get a hearing test]

Can this be measured?

It's a given. It's not better or worse. Just different. You play speakers, sound bounces all over the room. It fills the space. Use headphones for when i want critical and personal experience and speakers when im tired of the head dent or am doing something where a cable would be a limit. Wireless headphones are trash.