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Speakers that produce astonishing soundstaging/imaging?

Snarfie

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I know a lot of musicians and they all care about audio reproduction. They are all on the younger side, the older ones don't care. I prefer the new generation frankly.
Lot's of older musicans like Ron Carter Paul Wells, Jed levy, John Escreet, David Smith an i can go on an on are serious audiophiles which tons of experience an know atleast how an instrument must sound. Lots of them are interviewd by Stereophile " Musicians As Audiophiles" . You will find their experiences an great music. Worth will to read in too.

 
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BenB

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You've created something very interesting and wonderful (in my honest opinion) and I hope you will succeed in bringing it to market. :)
Thanks. There is currently a possible way forward for a prototype I'm working on that incorporates many of the design elements of my speakers, but in a simpler form factor. We'll have to see how it goes.
 

Sokel

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As I’ve mentioned in several other threads, I know hundreds of musicians, and only one of them cared a wit about audio reproduction equipment. And many of them have hearing loss (not just rockers - try sitting in front of a trombone some time). The experience from the audience is also quite different from the stage. So I tend to view the whole “musicians prefer it” as useless.
The musician that replies to you right now is interested is audio reproduction and always did,part for fun part because my best friend is a very hard core audiophile.

And yes,we are famous about our hearing loss (with all the shaming that contains) and for a thousand other things that makes us unable to criticize audio reproduction.Yet,it's us you listen to when you listen to your gear.

And yes,SOME musicians don't care about gear,I'll never forget a friend violinist with an ancient amp and speakers with damaged twitters and the tone control for highs turned all the way up.So?He was still crying with a great play.And that what counts.

My (and mine alone,not all musicians) preferences are insignificant,I will never impose them as facts.I know what I know,nothing more that's why I have already said I gave my room to professionals to treat.I want to know what they do in it,I care to learn but that is just my curiosity,as with the things I often ask here,without shame as is not my part of expertise.

Shaming people is not nice,my hobby is for fun,try keep it this way.
 

Mart68

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Lot's of older musicans like Ron Carter Paul Wells, Jed levy, John Escreet, David Smith an i can go on an on are serious audiophiles which tons of experience an now atleast how an instrument must sound. Lots of them are interviewd by Stereophile " Musicians As Audiophiles" . You will find their experiences an great music. Worth will to read in too.

but all instruments sound different, do two different makes of violin sound identical? And then you've got the effect of the acoustic the recording was made in, how it was miced up, the response of the microphone used. This why the 'Sound of real instruments' test of goodness is pretty much worthless even if it is a musician being wheeled in to judge.

If it's his recording and he was involved in the recording process as opposed to just playing then going home then maybe there is some small value to it.
 

ahofer

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Shaming people is not nice,my hobby is for fun,try keep it this way.
I did not, and have no intent, to shame. I am politely rejecting arguments to authority.
 

Sokel

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I did not, and have no intent, to shame. I am politely rejecting arguments to authority.
Where did I imply authority?Not in the specific post but in everything I have written here?Take a look in my content,is not much.I would say the opposite.
And talking about peoples disabilities is shaming,nothing polite about it.
Generalizing is never good.It's me you're reading,I do not represent my profession here.
 

Ozymand1as

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I have JBL Studio 530s in three rooms.

1) small-ish room with carpet
2) larger room with hardwood and rugs, no treatments
3) very small office with treatments

They sound quite different in each one. I prefer my office setup, which is more of a near field listening position. This room is best in terms of imaging and soundstage.

The worst is the larger room, because there are simply too many undesirable reflections and a somewhat asymmetric speaker position.

I have tried various other speakers. KEF are pretty narrow and have better imaging in my experience. Really wide speakers sounded bad to me, probably because I haven't optimized my room treatment for them.
 

Snarfie

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but all instruments sound different, do two different makes of violin sound identical? And then you've got the effect of the acoustic the recording was made in, how it was miced up, the response of the microphone used. This why the 'Sound of real instruments' test of goodness is pretty much worthless even if it is a musician being wheeled in to judge.

If it's his recording and he was involved in the recording process as opposed to just playing then going home then maybe there is some small value to it.
Have a listen at minute 6 were John Atkinson (who is also a proffesional bass player) explains how speakers reproduce instruments. I can't explain it not better than Atkinson who did many speaker test/measurments. The comparions that he did are probaly based on recordings he know quite well so one speakers does it wright an the other not. I guess that proffesional musicians can hear as Atkinson this difference too. To say frankly i can't :facepalm:

Found this artikel " Are Proffesionally traind Musicians better than Audiophiles" interesting to read.

 
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ahofer

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Where did I imply authority?Not in the specific post but in everything I have written here?Take a look in my content,is not much.I would say the opposite.
And talking about peoples disabilities is shaming,nothing polite about it.
Generalizing is never good.It's me you're reading,I do not represent my profession here.
Saying that musicians know what sounds good is an argument to authority, frequently employed subjectively, I find it tiresome, and it is rampant in this thread.

Again, I shame nobody. Hearing loss is a hazard of being a musician. No shame in it.

With that, you are muted.
 

Sokel

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If someone is showing authority that one is you,not me.More so,your generalization is SUBJECTIVE as you admit and so is useless in any content.
As for the hearing hazards,there's doctors to address,researchers who are actual scientists with actual data,we don't need people diminish our critical abilities with sad excuses and shaming us as a profession.

So,thanks for the mute and sorry for the off topic,civilization is more important than audio in my book.
 

AlexanderM

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Today I went into an audio store and was able to listen to

Oberon 5
Paradigm SE6000
KLH Concord
Wharfedale Diamond 12.3

Monitor Audio Silver 500 7-G
Paradigm Founder 100

It was on a Cambridge Receiver. If I'm on a tight budget I'd be fine with the Oberon's but probably go with the Oberon 7's, or the Paradigm 6000 or 8000. I did not find the Paradigms to be at all muddy specifically in comparison with the KEFQ950's, which I did find muddy.

That being said, if I had the budget, either the Monitor Audios or the Founder 100's are simply divine, I would give the edge to the Founders but I believe they are twice the price so I'd probably go with the Monitor Audio Silver 500's. I would listen to some Revel speakers first and then decide. Just saying.

I would also likely go back and listen to the Monitor Audio Bronze 500, they may be a more affordable option.
 
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Bassett53

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Hello I am not a technical chap but having read about lxmini I wonder if they are the right solution for me or can you help me think about another solution. My room measures 12 feet by 20 feet with a 10 feet high ceiling. The key thing for me is that I am only interested in speakers for natural sounding vocals, jazz, chamber music, violin and piano all from a digital source. I dislike earphones because the extreme sterio of left and right separation is very tiring for me so I suspect that soundstage etc is of little interest to me. I do like to hear individual instruments although not their placement. I also do not want to sit in a particular place so a sweet spot is undesirable. I actually think the lxminis look rather interesting and by all accounts seem to fit my idea of good natural sounding music from anywhere in the room - just imagine me listening to a piano while drinking a glass of cherry and reading the newspaper - so definitely not an audiophile. They do not look to be difficult to assemble but the alternative is to buy the lxsirius (a prebuilt lxmini). This is obviously much more expensive than a kit and may make something else already prebuilt more cost effective. Because of my lack of interest in becoming an audiophile you might even suggest something quite different. I would need to buy amplifiers etc because my only amp at the moment is a NAF 3020 which is good enough for my teac bookshelf speakers but I am looking for a major audio improvement. Living in Europe.
 

ahofer

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Hello I am not a technical chap but having read about lxmini I wonder if they are the right solution for me or can you help me think about another solution. My room measures 12 feet by 20 feet with a 10 feet high ceiling. The key thing for me is that I am only interested in speakers for natural sounding vocals, jazz, chamber music, violin and piano all from a digital source. I dislike earphones because the extreme sterio of left and right separation is very tiring for me so I suspect that soundstage etc is of little interest to me. I do like to hear individual instruments although not their placement. I also do not want to sit in a particular place so a sweet spot is undesirable. I actually think the lxminis look rather interesting and by all accounts seem to fit my idea of good natural sounding music from anywhere in the room - just imagine me listening to a piano while drinking a glass of cherry and reading the newspaper - so definitely not an audiophile. They do not look to be difficult to assemble but the alternative is to buy the lxsirius (a prebuilt lxmini). This is obviously much more expensive than a kit and may make something else already prebuilt more cost effective. Because of my lack of interest in becoming an audiophile you might even suggest something quite different. I would need to buy amplifiers etc because my only amp at the moment is a NAF 3020 which is good enough for my teac bookshelf speakers but I am looking for a major audio improvement. Living in Europe.
Given your tastes, which overlap considerably with mine, I’d suggest you audition some Harbeth speakers. I listen most critically to chamber music, both live and recorded, and i find the instruments sound really natural on my SHL5+. They are cheaper in Europe than here, also. The larger models do require a bit of amplifier power, however. On this site you will no doubt be urged to try the technically superb KEF R3 and Revel M16. I haven’t tried the Revels, but preferred the Harbeths to KEF R7s. You don’t really need a subwoofer given your music preferences.

As for headphones - you might try crossfeed. I find the ‘in your head’ presentation fatiguing as well. A lot of software and harder with EQ capabilities will have programmable crossfeed, which moves the image out of your head and more in front of you (by mixing a bit of opposite channel into each ear).
 

Bassett53

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Thank you for your reply it is nice to know that I am not alone? A minor question, my room is not really good for speakers requiring a lot of space because they would interfere with the seating arrangement (and the music should be enjoyable in most seating positions). Would your suggestion of harbeths or kef's be more appropriate for this added qualifier? At the end of the day the speakers should fit in with my seating arrangement not the other way about. I know this is not the way experts think of audio setups. I think this was my worry about lxmini which seem to have a nice unobstrusive design and are said to broadcast in all directions but appear to need to be placed a fair distance from the wall.
 

Bassett53

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Thank you for your reply it is nice to know that I am not alone? A minor question, my room is not really good for speakers requiring a lot of space because they would interfere with the seating arrangement (and the music should be enjoyable in most seating positions). Would your suggestion of harbeths or kef's be more appropriate for this added qualifier? At the end of the day the speakers should fit in with my seating arrangement not the other way about. I know this is not the way experts think of audio setups. I think this was my worry about lxmini which seem to have a nice unobstrusive design and are said to broadcast in all directions but appear to need to be placed a fair distance from the wall.
By the way your advice on headphones is something I will look into.
 

garbulky

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The easiest one to reccomend is the Emotiva T2+ speakers. I have heard the original T2 and it sounds excellent at a grand per pair. They have that "holographic" window feeling to it with its airmotiv tweeter and produce surprisingly dceep and powerful bass by themselves.
 

Vacceo

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Saying that musicians know what sounds good is an argument to authority, frequently employed subjectively, I find it tiresome, and it is rampant in this thread.

Again, I shame nobody. Hearing loss is a hazard of being a musician. No shame in it.

With that, you are muted.
Musicians, like you or me, know what they like. Sound reproduction is a quite simple matter in principle: reproduce what is in the source, nothing more, nothing less.

That said, the idea is narrowing down "what you like" to the source, so the system dissapears from the equation as much as possible. Sure, it´s impossible to archive that perfectly, as physics (room, electronics, speakers...) are always there, but the point, at least to me, is to get as close as possible to the source and nothing more.
 

MarkS

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I actually think the lxminis look rather interesting and by all accounts seem to fit my idea of good natural sounding music from anywhere in the room ... Living in Europe.
The LXminis are an omnidirectional speaker, and for your needs that is the direction to look. But there are not a lot of these; in Europe, Duevel is the best-known maker.

Here is a thread on omnis: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...nal-loudspeakers-best-design-available.19024/

For conventional forward-firing speakers, you want dispersion as broad as possible. The best way to test this is an in-home trial. At a store, try walking around and seeing how much the sound changes.
 

Bassett53

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I would like to thank everyone for their suggestions. I will take them all on board and the idea of randomly walking around a music shop to decide if anything suits is a good one. I will try to listen to the lxmini and the German planet Omni directional speaker as well. At the moment my best solution for listening to piano music was to buy a kawai piano keyboard and play piano CDs through that - it is full range and simulates varios famous pianos. My interest in non traditional speakers came about from violin music coming from multiple ceiling mounted speakers in a French railway station - they sounded very special. So I know a solution is out there. While I understand the purpose of managing the walls of a room with non reflective surfaces it occurs to me that music coming from above - either directly or indirectly - will hit the carpet or soft chairs and absorbion is built-in. Just for your interest I am one of the 2 percent of people who cannot form a picture in their minds eye which might explain why soundstage and imaging (if I understand the terms correctly) are not important to me. It is also the reason I will never get multiple speakers around my TV - the sterio++ effect sounds artificial and contrived. But as a barely competent violin player I am really keen to find the correct notes - near enough is not good enough. So very discriminating in some respects but not others and with your help the search is on!
 
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