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Speakers for Living room

Dhomo

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Joined
Feb 16, 2023
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Hello Forum,

I used to have a nearfield situation in my living room but that has changed now and I sit 3.3 m away from the speakers (non perfect triangle as well) in an untreated living room. Since I been using some Genelecs in the studio for a long time thought go the active route for the living room as well and got some used Buchardt A500s. Dialed in some room correction with a minidsp and dirac live but overall I think at this listening distance the reflections will muddy up the sound and it might be a waste to use such a "expensive" setup in an untreated room.
I have 2 SVS NSD12 in my basement and a 4 channel minidsp with a dirac licencse. Really wanted to get rid of the subwoofers to have a "cleaner" look that my missus will appreciate but all that got me thinking if I could save me a lot of money just putting some 8030s on top of the subs and call it a day. Am I wrong in assuming that at that listening distance I will always be overwhelmed by room influences? Are there speakers designed to work at higher distances something like a "farfield" monitor? I am not ready to spend 15k on one speakers as the Genelec chart would suggest.
Sorry my english is not very good but you guys might share your thoughts with me.

Cheers
 
I am not ready to spend 15k on one speakers as the Genelec chart would suggest.
It depends on your required clean SPL. 90 Db spl long term is expected from 8330(8030) at 3 m distance.
If it's enough, you can try.

at that listening distance I will always be overwhelmed by room influences
Correct. You can't use small speakers in 3 m triangle in untreated room and expect direct sound dominance.
IMO this can be applied to any speakers, but for small monitors it's especially right.
Are there speakers designed to work at higher distances something like a "farfield" monitor?
Farfield monitors.
Any big home speakers.
Speakers with waveguides/controlled directivity.
 
Thanks for the reply freddy. I dont think i go over 75 db at my listening position a lot.
Farfield monitors.

Any big home speakers.
Speakers with waveguides/controlled directivity.
Most "Big home speakers" I see are not really better in that category at least from what I do understand then smaller speakers.

Any suggestions in general? Most 3way system I see have no waveguide for the "midwoofer" and 2way systems tend to not work good in that environment.
 
Hello Forum,

I used to have a nearfield situation in my living room but that has changed now and I sit 3.3 m away from the speakers (non perfect triangle as well) in an untreated living room. Since I been using some Genelecs in the studio for a long time thought go the active route for the living room as well and got some used Buchardt A500s. Dialed in some room correction with a minidsp and dirac live but overall I think at this listening distance the reflections will muddy up the sound and it might be a waste to use such a "expensive" setup in an untreated room.
I have 2 SVS NSD12 in my basement and a 4 channel minidsp with a dirac licencse. Really wanted to get rid of the subwoofers to have a "cleaner" look that my missus will appreciate but all that got me thinking if I could save me a lot of money just putting some 8030s on top of the subs and call it a day. Am I wrong in assuming that at that listening distance I will always be overwhelmed by room influences? Are there speakers designed to work at higher distances something like a "farfield" monitor? I am not ready to spend 15k on one speakers as the Genelec chart would suggest.
Sorry my english is not very good but you guys might share your thoughts with me.

Cheers
Maybe look at the Neumann KH150. You can probably get away with no subs.
 
Most "Big home speakers" I see are not really better in that category at least from what I do understand then smaller speakers.
Sorry, I don't understand your needs.
IMO you can't get any speaker that will throw fullrange direct sound at you from 3+ m in ordinary living room. It's just physics like mentioned at Genelec page.
soundwave_directions.jpg

There are some cardioid solutions and fancy DSP solutions, but IDK how much can one rely on those.
So, you need just some speakers without big directivity issues and with enough SPL headroom.
Totaly untreated room will inevitably distort their sound and while it can be OK for casual listening, you'll never get this "IEM clarity" that you'll have from NF monitors in zone of direct sound domination.

Any suggestions in general? Most 3way system I see have no waveguide for the "midwoofer" and 2way systems tend to not work good in that environment.
I'd recommend you not to expect nearfield studio sound from midfield placement in ordinary living room.
It would be unbelievable luck if you have such result with any speakers.
 
Sorry, I don't understand your needs.
IMO you can't get any speaker that will throw fullrange direct sound at you from 3+ m in ordinary living room. It's just physics like mentioned at Genelec page.
View attachment 265194
There are some cardioid solutions and fancy DSP solutions, but IDK how much can one rely on those.
So, you need just some speakers without big directivity issues and with enough SPL headroom.
Totaly untreated room will inevitably distort their sound and while it can be OK for casual listening, you'll never get this "IEM clarity" that you'll have from NF monitors in zone of direct sound domination.


I'd recommend you not to expect nearfield studio sound from midfield placement in ordinary living room.
It would be unbelievable luck if you have such result with any speakers.
Yes I understand that especially in the low end I would run into those problems, as I already see on my measurements. So I was wondering If it is even worth it running an "expensive solution" in a untreaded living room at diestances over 2 meters and ask myself what would be the best bang for my buck to get good audio with proper lowend extention (that i can reduce with my dsp if needed). Subwooferwise I would love to avoid it but I could put a max 12inch sub under the speaker with a small stand in-between. At first I was looking at floorstanders but most do not extend much below 40hz.

Maybe look at the Neumann KH150. You can probably get away with no subs.
Might be worth looking at but still bearing the question if it is even worth it in an untreated room.

So yes that sums up my dilemma. I now have some A500s here and did play around with the tunings (stuck with the close to wall tuning, to reduce room gain from placement close to the wall). And must say when I compare them to some OG Mackie HR824 that I have laying around I do not notice a big improvement even if it is missing some subbass. I am also wondering why the A500s have the midwoofer crossedover at 2800hz.
 
KEF's LS60 active towers could be a good option. They have a narrower dispersion pattern than many other speakers.
 
I use nearfield monitors in my family room all the time. There is really no difference between nearfield monitors and home bookshelf speakers. If you need loud that is where the issue becomes a problem. Smaller speakers won't go as low in bass and won't play as loud. Because I work in this industry I am always trying new stuff in this room, usually sound bars and speakers, sometimes with a sub but often not. I have used Genelec G4s (aka 8040) there and they keep making an appearance:). They sound great and the bass is low enough for music listening and TV in my opinion. I also have theater room, so if I am watching an action movie I go to my theater room. But, a LOT of daily listening and watching happens in this room and it is not perfect either for acoustics. Big open area 25 x25 also open to my kitchen with lots of windows. Seating is 9-13 feet away. Volume has not been a problem even if I turn it up a little except for very small speakers and many sound bars. If this is your main viewing/listening area you may want to add a sub.

If you don't want to spend the money for Genelec try some of the other less expensive monitors. I have used many other monitors in this room as well, I liked the 308s quite a bit and still use them in other area of my home at the moment. The 305s are good for the price but I would spend a little more if possible. I have also had Yamaha, Neumann and Mackie monitors as well as a number of consumer speakers. Sometimes I add a sub but often don't need it for casual listening. Hopefully, I will have some Kali Audio speakers to test soon. I have heard good things about them. I think JBL, Kali, Adam, iloud or Focal would be good choices for not as much money as Genelec/Neumann. No matter which you choose I have always found I prefer a nice set of speakers for sound over any of the sound bars I have tested.
 
KEF's LS60 active towers could be a good option. They have a narrower dispersion pattern than many other speakers.
I would really like to try them out but not at the money kef are asking :D We are getting into used genelec coax tier kind of money...

I use nearfield monitors in my family room all the time. There is really no difference between nearfield monitors and home bookshelf speakers. If you need loud that is where the issue becomes a problem. Smaller speakers won't go as low in bass and won't play as loud. Because I work in this industry I am always trying new stuff in this room, usually sound bars and speakers, sometimes with a sub but often not. I have used Genelec G4s (aka 8040) there and they keep making an appearance:). They sound great and the bass is low enough for music listening and TV in my opinion. I also have theater room, so if I am watching an action movie I go to my theater room. But, a LOT of daily listening and watching happens in this room and it is not perfect either for acoustics. Big open area 25 x25 also open to my kitchen with lots of windows. Seating is 9-13 feet away. Volume has not been a problem even if I turn it up a little except for very small speakers and many sound bars. If this is your main viewing/listening area you may want to add a sub.

If you don't want to spend the money for Genelec try some of the other less expensive monitors. I have used many other monitors in this room as well, I liked the 308s quite a bit and still use them in other area of my home at the moment. The 305s are good for the price but I would spend a little more if possible. I have also had Yamaha, Neumann and Mackie monitors as well as a number of consumer speakers. Sometimes I add a sub but often don't need it for casual listening. Hopefully, I will have some Kali Audio speakers to test soon. I have heard good things about them. I think JBL, Kali, Adam, iloud or Focal would be good choices for not as much money as Genelec/Neumann. No matter which you choose I have always found I prefer a nice set of speakers for sound over any of the sound bars I have tested.

This is kind of what I did in my old living room but it was properly treated and I think I just have to deal with this new situation. Somehow I thought that a "full range" speaker would somehow wow me here but It does not. So yeah getting some used 8040s, putting them on my NSD12 would probably be more then enough. The only problem would be the looks of that contraption :D
 
I actually bought new 8361A’s for less than what LS60’s cost here (Canada).
Here it is the complete opposite you pay 10k for a pair of 8361As and 6300€ for LS60s
 
Y
Here it is the complete opposite you pay 10k for a pair of 8361As and 6300€ for LS60s
Yeah, we get a pretty good deal on Genelecs. LS60 are CAD$10000 here.
 
Y

Yeah, we get a pretty good deal on Genelecs. LS60 are CAD$10000 here.
That would be really tempting. But what I did gather from this thread it that it doesnt really matter at my listening distance unless I buy some crazy main monitors and treat the room.
Yeah so I might just buy something like a kef r7 and throw it in their so the wife cant complain about looks and with all the roomgain the lack of "bass" should be accounted for. Think it is just not worth it spending north of 6 grand for something playing in this suboptimal setup
 
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