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Speakers Are The Enemy

...

Measured accuracy is a requirement of studio speakers, but not so in the domestic environment. It's more important that the excitement factor of the live performance is delivered by domestic speakers - the pleasure it gives to our ears and brains is more important that what the measuring mic may think!
And thus speakers wander further and further from what is recorded, providing a target that those who produce music feel the need to chase.

If I want a recording of amplified pop music of whatever sub-genre to sound "live," I need to add 1.) a high base level of crowd noise, 2.) cheering, and 3.) impossibly loud echo and acoustic mud from what is usually an acoustically nightmarish performance venue overburdened by too much amplification. I like live recordings when those issues are controlled, but those are not the reference recordings most of the time.

If I want a recording to sound like what the musicians and composers intended, then please don't add "excitement". Record it in a good space (if it's acoustic) that does what musicians want a room to do while maintaining clarity. I do want to sometimes play it quite loud, and so want speakers capable of remaining linear at high listening levels. But I do not need them to provide enhancement. When they try to define excitement for me beyond what's on the recording, only then do they become the enemy.

But really I think that excitement is the natural result when speakers don't compress dynamic peaks at the desired listening level. A speaker might have that fault even with a good spinorama, assuming the spin is done at lower-than-desired listening levels.

I think when talented professionals talk about "accurate" speakers for mixing, what they want are speakers that don't muddy the detail of the music with a lot of out-of-control resonances. Guess what? That's exactly what I want in my (domestic) listening space for playback. I'm talking about pros creating recordings of acoustic music for listeners who have live performance (of acoustic music) as their baseline listening experience. Mainly: Classical, and to some extent, jazz and bluegrass. Not rock, and not (or at least no longer) country, not metal, not pop, and not hip-hop.

But most mixing professionals feeding pop culture suffer from what those in the printing and visual layout business used to call (Apple) MacIntosh Death--the availability of 400 fonts that tempts the untalented to use as many as possible instead of providing a simple, coherent design. Look, this DAW gives me 657 different flavors of room reverberation! More! More! More! And this recording sounds too quiet because the music has quiet bits. Let's raise the average by reducing the peaks! Compress! Compress! Compress! These B&W monitors the studio bought because they are British and fancy are too hot at 2 KHz, so let's EQ the heck out of it to add excitement! More Bass! More high treble! So, what is the supposed accuracy of so-called studio monitors being used to accomplish?

Recordings that squash dynamics with compression are going to sound bad no matter what magic the playback system attempts to perform to restore dynamic contrasts. (Which, by the way, is a classic example of the circle of confusion at work.) Same with recordings that lack spectral neutrality, which is more rare an which is what tone controls are for. I think a lot of the popularity of horn-loaded compression drivers over the years, and maybe even some electrostatic designs, has been to add the illusion of dynamic punch where the recording has squashed it.

If the music isn't sufficiently exciting all by itself, then a sound system trying to make it so isn't going to work, it seems to me.

The real enemy is the music industry that refuses to promote neutral, dynamic recordings so that the music can provide the excitement. I think of rock recordings from the early 70's--particularly what is now called prog rock where the complexity of the composition was something the musicians were aiming at--that were recorded fairly dry back in the day, without a lot of the processing that would now be done (perhaps only with the compression resulting from mastering on oxide tape). They sound so good compared to recent stuff. And people whose baseline listening expectations are dominated by available recordings lead the industry to double down on the processing. This popularity feedback loop sits on top of the industry business objective to promote pop stars that are more than merely musically talented--they must also be visually appealing for video presentation. The Buggles had it right.

Back to topic: I think the primary objective of most high-end speaker designs is to create a high-design, high-value (read: high-price) product that tells owners and their guests that their sound system is really cool. For that objective, the visual presentation is more important than the aural presentation, which has to be merely competent (and not always even that). These wacky visual designs always have a truthy technical explanation, but really most people who have real live music as their habitual reference can't detect any real improvement over plainly designed speakers that measure well and can produce high listening levels without compression.

Rick "in rant mode today" Denney
 
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you rarely if ever find horn speakers in recording studios

True, but every now and then...

Estudio Medea in Puerto Rico:

Estudio_Medea_CR_Front_small(2)-001.jpg


I'm pretty sure the designer would have done it a bit differently for home audio.
 
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And thus speakers wander further and further from what is recorded, providing a target that those who produce music feel the need to chase.

If I want a recording of amplified pop music of whatever sub-genre to sound "live," I need to add 1.) a high base level of crowd noise, 2.) cheering, and 3.) impossibly loud echo and acoustic mud from what is usually an acoustically nightmarish performance venue overburdened by too much amplification. I like live recordings when those issues are controlled, but those are not the reference recordings most of the time.

If I want a recording to sound like what the musicians and composers intended, then please don't add "excitement". Record it in a good space (if it's acoustic) that does what musicians want a room to do while maintaining clarity. I do want to sometimes play it quite loud, and so want speakers capable of remaining linear at high listening levels. But I do not need them to provide enhancement. When they try to define excitement for me beyond what's on the recording, only then do they become the enemy.

But really I think that excitement is the natural result when speakers don't compress dynamic peaks at the desired listening level. A speaker might have that fault even with a good spinorama, assuming the spin is done at lower-than-desired listening levels.

I think when talented professionals talk about "accurate" speakers for mixing, what they want are speakers that don't muddy the detail of the music with a lot of out-of-control resonances. Guess what? That's exactly what I want in my (domestic) listening space for playback. I'm talking about pros creating recordings of acoustic music for listeners who have live performance (of acoustic music) as their baseline listening experience. Mainly: Classical, and to some extent, jazz and bluegrass. Not rock, and not (or at least no longer) country, not metal, not pop, and not hip-hop.

But most mixing professionals feeding pop culture suffer from what those in the printing and visual layout business used to call (Apple) MacIntosh Death--the availability of 400 fonts that tempts the untalented to use as many as possible instead of providing a simple, coherent design. Look, this DAW gives me 657 different flavors of room reverberation! More! More! More! And this recording sounds too quiet because the music has quiet bits. Let's raise the average by reducing the peaks! Compress! Compress! Compress! These B&W monitors the studio bought because they are British and fancy are too hot at 2 KHz, so let's EQ the heck out of it to add excitement! More Bass! More high treble! So, what is the supposed accuracy of so-called studio monitors being used to accomplish?

Recordings that squash dynamics with compression are going to sound bad no matter what magic the playback system attempts to perform to restore dynamic contrasts. (Which, by the way, is a classic example of the circle of confusion at work.) Same with recordings that lack spectral neutrality, which is more rare an which is what tone controls are for. I think a lot of the popularity of horn-loaded compression drivers over the years, and maybe even some electrostatic designs, has been to add the illusion of dynamic punch where the recording has squashed it.

If the music isn't sufficiently exciting all by itself, then a sound system trying to make it so isn't going to work, it seems to me.

The real enemy is the music industry that refuses to promote neutral, dynamic recordings so that the music can provide the excitement. I think of rock recordings from the early 70's--particularly what is now called prog rock where the complexity of the composition was something the musicians were aiming at--that were recorded fairly dry back in the day, without a lot of the processing that would now be done (perhaps only with the compression resulting from mastering on oxide tape). They sound so good compared to recent stuff. And people whose baseline listening expectations are dominated by available recordings lead the industry to double down on the processing. This popularity feedback loop sits on top of the industry business objective to promote pop stars that are more than merely musically talented--they must also be visually appealing for video presentation. The Buggles had it right.

Back to topic: I think the primary objective of most high-end speaker designs is to create a high-design, high-value (read: high-price) product that tells owners and their guests that their sound system is really cool. For that objective, the visual presentation is more important than the aural presentation, which has to be merely competent (and not always even that). These wacky visual designs always have a truthy technical explanation, but really most people who have real live music as their habitual reference can't detect any real improvement over plainly designed speakers that measure well and can produce high listening levels without compression.

Rick "in rant mode today" Denney

“ No clouds were harmed in this rant.”
:)
 
Yes, I'd generally agree with that but, for example you can't get speakers that convey a live performance in a more life-like way than a pair of high-quality horn speakers, but you rarely if ever find horn speakers in recording studios – or electrostatics for that matter.

Measured accuracy is a requirement of studio speakers, but not so in the domestic environment. It's more important that the excitement factor of the live performance is delivered by domestic speakers - the pleasure it gives to our ears and brains is more important that what the measuring mic may think!
Hmm.....I remember the "Mighty Westlake" speakers....used by Prince, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, Fred Hammond, several other people have used those horn speakers. Others like LA Reid have used speakers that have ribbon tweeters (Legacy Audio). One thing I've noticed about every Legacy Speaker that I've measured so far...they all have that BBC dip designed into them.
 
If I want a recording of amplified pop music of whatever sub-genre to sound "live," I need to add 1.) a high base level of crowd noise, 2.) cheering, and 3.) impossibly loud echo and acoustic mud from what is usually an acoustically nightmarish performance venue overburdened by too much amplification. I like live recordings when those issues are controlled, but those are not the reference recordings most of the time.

I rarely go to any live performance where I'd be listening to loudspeakers. Why bother if you have loudspeakers at home that could reproduce that loudspeaker performance equally well?

When I go to a live performance, I want to hear instruments, not loudspeakers. This may be an orchestral concert or a jazz venue where loudspeaker are not required.

Likewise I want my loudspeakers to reproduce that live performance as accurately and excitingly as the live instrumental performance, limited only by the inevitable limitations of audio equipment, even very high quality equipment.

With respect, your idea of what constitutes an enjoyable evening of music entertainment, at a live venue or at home, seems far different than mine. Anyway, Vive la difference and happy listening.
 
Yes, I'd generally agree with that but, for example you can't get speakers that convey a live performance in a more life-like way than a pair of high-quality horn speakers, but you rarely if ever find horn speakers in recording studios – or electrostatics for that matter.

Measured accuracy is a requirement of studio speakers, but not so in the domestic environment. It's more important that the excitement factor of the live performance is delivered by domestic speakers - the pleasure it gives to our ears and brains is more important that what the measuring mic may think!
At one stage the BBC had a bunch of ESL57's and ESL63's in their studios, so did Philips studios - probably others too.

But I would not ever have called them common! (in any sense of the word)
 
I couldn't more strenuously disagree with this, and my money's where my mouth is: my primary speakers are widely used as studio and mastering monitors. And they sound awesome in my home.
Exactly so, if you play music that sounds good (decently mixed, and not overbaked during mastering, for example).
The question: Why would anyone play music without these qualities?

(Taking shelter from flames from hiphop/rap/rave fans...)
 
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I rarely go to any live performance where I'd be listening to loudspeakers. Why bother if you have loudspeakers at home that could reproduce that loudspeaker performance equally well?

When I go to a live performance, I want to hear instruments, not loudspeakers. This may be an orchestral concert or a jazz venue where loudspeaker are not required.

Likewise I want my loudspeakers to reproduce that live performance as accurately and excitingly as the live instrumental performance, limited only by the inevitable limitations of audio equipment, even very high quality equipment.

With respect, your idea of what constitutes an enjoyable evening of music entertainment, at a live venue or at home, seems far different than mine. Anyway, Vive la difference and happy listening.
Nothing worse than going to a live "big band" performance, and you have already loud brass, being further amplified and distorted by PA system, playing in a relatively small venue.... ear hurting in a whole bunch of ways!!!

(that band could have been playing in an open paddock, unamplified and the sound would have been great.... as it was, it was miserable!)
 
Room acoustics can definitely add to the subjective quality of a live performance. I was having a chat with a friend on the weekend and he was telling me how he got involved in a mission to save an orchestral performance recently. The ensemble had booked a venue that was designed for amplified music and when the orchestra began rehearsing, the conductor was appalled at the sound. The room was essentially dead with respect to an acoustic performance and the conductor knew how this kind of flat presentation would be unsatisfying for the audience. My friend was engaged to attempt to liven up the room and he did so by using the fly bars to hang curved plywood panels that he designed and fabricated. These were joined by another set in a semicircle around the back of the orchestra. As a final touch, 37 small speakers were arranged above the stage with two condenser mics feeding them. The subtly amplified sound had delay added to mimic a more live room. What he achieved, he described as "bloom" designed to give the performance a more complex range of primary and reflected components which would be satisfying to the audience. By all accounts it was very successful. Sorry, no pics :-(
 
I think I understand what you mean, but the mastering engineer is the last step in the process and frequently wasn’t around when the music was recorded, and wasn’t present for the mixing.

So who would have the perfect speakers? The recording engineer who set it all up to record the music as he intended and listened to playback to confirm if he got what he was looking for? Including the selection of microphones for their specific EQ?

Or the mixing engineer who took what the recording engineer gave him/her to mix down to 2ch/multi ch mix, adjusting levels of voices and instruments, where they are in soundstage, left, center, right, adjusting with EQ, phase, reverb, limiting, and a 1000 other things to come up with a final product.

Or the mastering engineer’s speakers who takes the mix and makes it ready to go for whatever media(s) it will be marketed (streaming, physical media)
What does the band sign off on? I’m guessing it’s the master?
 
What does the band sign off on? I’m guessing it’s the master?
Mostly it's the premaster, the mix that goes to mastering, and the label (sometimes the same person) does the mastering and signs that off. Also know that for each medium there is a different master, as vinyl needs other specs than a digital release due to the limitations of the medium.
 
Speaker is not the enemy, the room and bad positioning is, that is 90% of the battle.
Hard to win a war when fighting the wrong enemy.;)
 
We often claim we want to hear “the absolute truth of the recording”. But in reality, that truth is fundamentally unknowable.

We rarely know what microphones were used, what preamps, what EQ decisions were made, how the monitors were calibrated, or even what the mixing engineer actually intended the final tonal balance to be. Every recording is the product of thousands of technical and artistic decisions we cannot reconstruct.

And yet we chase “perfect accuracy?.."

The irony is that even if we could perfectly tune your system for one specific recording, it would almost certainly be slightly wrong for the next ten thousand hours of music we play afterward. The reference simply keeps moving.

In a strange way, audio listening has its own version of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle: the harder we chase absolute fidelity, the more we risk turning music into a measurement problem without a real established reference.

We begin chasing half-decibel differences, debating cables, analyzing graphs, and scrutinizing spectra - until the pursuit of precision quietly replaces the experience of listening.

The waveform hasn’t changed.

But the enjoyment of music has. I'll personally take "Heavens, I love this music!" over "My inability to establish if this is utterly identical to the original recording is making me question whether I like listening to this or not".
 
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Speaker is not the enemy, the room and bad positioning is, that is 90% of the battle.
Hard to win a war when fighting the wrong enemy.;)
I completely agree.
However, I wouldn't refer to the whole thing as an enemy, but rather as a task.

In my opinion, one of the main problems is that the most important task, namely integrating the speaker into the living space, remains with the buyer, who in 80% of cases probably has no idea about room acoustics – and then wonders why the great speaker doesn't sound as expected.
 
We often claim we want to hear “the absolute truth of the recording”. But in reality, that truth is fundamentally unknowable.

We rarely know what microphones were used, what preamps, what EQ decisions were made, how the monitors were calibrated, or even what the mixing engineer actually intended the final tonal balance to be. Every recording is the product of thousands of technical and artistic decisions we cannot reconstruct.

And yet we chase “perfect accuracy?.."

The irony is that even if we could perfectly tune your system for one specific recording, it would almost certainly be slightly wrong for the next ten thousand hours of music we play afterward. The reference simply keeps moving.

In a strange way, audio listening has its own version of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle: the harder we chase absolute fidelity, the more we risk turning music into a measurement problem without a real established reference.

We begin chasing half-decibel differences, debating cables, analyzing graphs, and scrutinizing spectra - until the pursuit of precision quietly replaces the experience of listening.

The waveform hasn’t changed.

But the enjoyment of music has. I'll personally take "Heavens, I love this music!" over "My inability to establish if this is utterly identical to the original recording is making me question whether I like listening to this or not".
All true,

Essentially we have to settle for, am i happy with how this sounds to my ears, in my room, right now?
how it was actually intended to "sound" we will never know, too many variables.
On average i'm very happy how 90% of everything i play through my current set-up sounds, whether that's the "thruth" or as "intended" , who knows:)
 
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