Speakers advice needed

[tineared]

I will second the recommendations for either the KEF R11 or the Revel F328Be.

 

[Chagall]

Although KEF R11 meta is great choice I'm not sure it's needed in a 20 m2 room...How far is the listening position? Do you have space to pull them in of the walls? How loud do you listen to usually? Subs down the line?

I would also look at KEF LS60 and call it a day.

 

[Jiraya369]

Thanks everyone for your input. @Jiraya369 I like listening to the music without any additional adjustments - like touching the bass, treble etc.
I understand that this sounds cliche but I like to listen to the music the way it was recorded by the artist.
My biggest trouble is that unfortunately I cannot listen to any of the listed speakers in person, since they are not available in the local store for demo purposes.
Don't ask me why ... So whatever I am buying will be pretty much completely shooting the pitch black dark.
And also I am assuming that any comparison with my current speakers is obsolete, as they are much lower quality.

the artist intended you to listen to the music through your device. It can be from a phone or from 50k dollar speakers. That's why they mix with neutral speakers and do checks on other hardware to make sure their intent was translated well.

Touching up bass and treble to taste is what will give YOU the most happiness overall but if a neutral speaker is perfect as is for you then great! But even your room will color the sound of a neutral speaker, so keep that in mind as well. You can get a neutral speaker but not a neutral sound, depending on your room.

Trust me, if you get the KEF you will not regret it one bit, if you do, you can touch up the bass/treble as i said and get something that is demonstrably great. You can recreate a concert in your home and burst your eardrums and those speakers would still continue to deliver pristine sound with deep bass.

 

[Chichomancho]

the artist intended you to listen to the music through your device. It can be from a phone or from 50k dollar speakers. That's why they mix with neutral speakers and do checks on other hardware to make sure their intent was translated well.

Touching up bass and treble to taste is what will give YOU the most happiness overall but if a neutral speaker is perfect as is for you then great! But even your room will color the sound of a neutral speaker, so keep that in mind as well. You can get a neutral speaker but not a neutral sound, depending on your room.

Trust me, if you get the KEF you will not regret it one bit, if you do, you can touch up the bass/treble as i said and get something that is demonstrably great. You can recreate a concert in your home and burst your eardrums and those speakers would still continue to deliver pristine sound with deep bass.

well. for me a phone or anything similar as a sound source is not something serious to look at at all.

 

[MKR]

@mglobe should I be worried that the KEF's are manufactured in China ?

Nope … it’s a “dirty little secret” that many (if not most) of the typical HEA speaker companies at a minimum manufacture their cabinets in China/Asia (then they are assembled/tested in country of origin, but for many even this is done in Asia). This is a very expensive endeavor (cabinet manufacturing) in US and Europe and would increase cost of speakers significantly. If the cabinets are manufactured in the “west”, there is a price to match.

 

[Chagall]

well. for me a phone or anything similar as a sound source is not something serious to look at at all.

Yes, well same applies to "normal" speakers in an untreated, uncorrected room. Put any great speakers in a random room with no correction and the room will wreck the frequency response. And ask any mixing/mastering engineer whether they’re opposed to DSP or EQ.

Anyway, my point is simple: DSP and EQ are not anti-hifi - it's the opposite. I’ll move on.

 

[FrantzM]

Thanks everyone for your input. @Jiraya369 I like listening to the music without any additional adjustments - like touching the bass, treble etc.
I understand that this sounds cliche but I like to listen to the music the way it was recorded by the artist.
My biggest trouble is that unfortunately I cannot listen to any of the listed speakers in person, since they are not available in the local store for demo purposes.
Don't ask me why ... So whatever I am buying will be pretty much completely shooting the pitch black dark.
And also I am assuming that any comparison with my current speakers is obsolete, as they are much lower quality.

The closest you can get to the "way is what recorded by the artist" is to get your system to remove as much distortions as possible ...
Consider your audio system is a chain consisting of:
Source ---->Amp---->ROOM[Speakers]...
In these days and age, most digital sources are essentially transparent. electronics, your amp is transparent .. then you have the room in which reside the speakers.. let's allow that you acquire a perfect speaker:The no-touch anything, leaves the signal reaching your ears, in most cases, greatly distorted (spoiler: by the room). in 99.9999999999% (made up, but not far from the truth) of cases. The way to make these perfect speakers sound as good as possible and minimize the effects of the room is via EQ or DSP or DRC ... .. So, yeah! here we at ASR, are for the vast majority, proponents of reducing the always-present effects of the room .. This involves "touching, the bass and treble" judiciously via EQ, and there are scientific methods and procedures to do that .. These can get quite involved .. Some are easier but all are involved and require measurements .. Something you'll notice, will come up a lot in discussions here at ASR, if you stick around..

The Revel in your budget range by the way is the F228 Be, when it is on sale , the 3 2 8 Be ( as in Three Two Eight) is usually around $15,000 even on sale ...

well. for me a phone or anything similar as a sound source is not something serious to look at at all.

Stay at ASR and you will know that many phones are audibly transparent. We have proof, e.g Apple Lighting dongle, the one at $9.95 (!!!!!) is as good as a Totally famed DAC costing $15,000 .. So a phone can be a good source as good a your current player.. Yeah. Provable.
Another example, one of the better DAC measured here in 2018, was an LG phone ... click here.

 

[steve59]

Is too bad you can't audition speakers. Sonus Faber speakers are so easy on the eyes and ears. The only wrong pick would be buying what someone else tells you to buy while ignoring what what you want or think you want. You listed 2 SF models while while ignoring many other well regarded brands. If you buy the ones the majority here recommend will you be left wondering if you should have followed your personal favorite? I've owned many KEF and several Revel speakers and they do a good job of staying out of the way of the music. Both of those 'text book' brands manage to achieve deep bass without boosting the mid bass nearly as much as most brands, but it can sound dull and lifeless if you're used to the more traditional builds. I don't think there's a bad pick on your list and if they're going in a living room with your GF/wife pause b4 passing on SF.

 

[Chichomancho]

Is too bad you can't audition speakers. Sonus Faber speakers are so easy on the eyes and ears. The only wrong pick would be buying what someone else tells you to buy while ignoring what what you want or think you want. You listed 2 SF models while while ignoring many other well regarded brands. If you buy the ones the majority here recommend will you be left wondering if you should have followed your personal favorite? I've owned many KEF and several Revel speakers and they do a good job of staying out of the way of the music. Both of those 'text book' brands manage to achieve deep bass without boosting the mid bass nearly as much as most brands, but it can sound dull and lifeless if you're used to the more traditional builds. I don't think there's a bad pick on your list and if they're going in a living room with your GF/wife pause b4 passing on SF.

Hello Steve, I don't have a favorite, cause I cannot hear any of the listed by me speakers. Here where I live the choice and most importantly availability of high-end speakers is very limited. And because they are expensive, I only can guess this is the reason that they are not available in stores for demo purposes. Noone is going to spend a truck full of money for something that will be used for demo purposes, that's their mentality. The other day I talked to a Sonus Faber dealer here, and they told me that some client already ordered a model from Sonus Faber, and they will be delivered ... in one year. Yeah, one year, I am not joking. Is this normal in other parts of the world- I have no idea, I don't know.
So the ones I listed are kinda available for purchase, in the following days I will try to find out if KEF's are available at a local store for a demo.

 

[Chrispy]

Thanks everyone for your input. @Jiraya369 I like listening to the music without any additional adjustments - like touching the bass, treble etc.
I understand that this sounds cliche but I like to listen to the music the way it was recorded by the artist.
My biggest trouble is that unfortunately I cannot listen to any of the listed speakers in person, since they are not available in the local store for demo purposes.
Don't ask me why ... So whatever I am buying will be pretty much completely shooting the pitch black dark.
And also I am assuming that any comparison with my current speakers is obsolete, as they are much lower quality.

Not just cliche but rooms are a huge difference in how a speaker will sound; your dealer's showroom may not work the same as your own room. EQ can be a good thing, and can vary with listening level as to how effective it can be. I think you can rely more on speaker measurements than auditioning in some random room....let alone asking for subjective opinions on the internet. Good luck, tho!

 

[Timcognito]

@Chichomancho welcome to ASR. That is good sized budget based on your choices. So if you haven't done so try this:

Select Review Index (upper left) -> click speakers (in banner) -> Search Box (type bands you like or not) -> Sort (click column headers of interest, maybe price of one speaker) -> Read comments of one's you have interest (Much information is there to answer the same concerns and interests that you may have). Come back with questions, take your time and audition before buying if possible.

 

[Chichomancho]

@Chichomancho welcome to ASR. That is good sized budget based on your choices. So if you haven't done so try this:

Select Review Index (upper left) -> click speakers (in banner) -> Search Box (type bands you like or not) -> Sort (click column headers of interest, maybe price of one speaker) -> Read comments of one's you have interest (Much information is there to answer the same concerns and interests that you may have). Come back with questions, take your time and audition before buying if possible.

ah thank you so much for that ! Unfortunately, I can't "read" all those graphs presented, but I am reading all the rest.

 

[Timcognito]

Unfortunately, I can't "read" all those graphs presented, but I am reading all the rest

If you mean you are not educated on what is presented there is this from Amir. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...measurements-and-listening-tests-video.25825/
Most of us here have had the same learning curve.
If you do find some that appeal to you see if they are here https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/ as Erin makes a video for each and verbally translates his subjective impressions to the graphs.

 

[Multicore]

The recommendations above are good. If you are in the USA then the previously mentioned Ascend ELX Tower pair is $4,398 plus shipping. Difference with KEF and Revel is you're buying direct from a small business and if you want to consult with them about your needs you may, as happened to me, end up talking to the designer. They have a user forum too.

 

[Mort]

$4,398 plus shipping.

Not arguing with your recommendation, which belongs in this group, but I can't find any ELX model for that amount. Everything is $5698, a big jump.

 

[tineared]

Not arguing with your recommendation, which belongs in this group, but I can't find any ELX model for that amount. Everything is $5698, a big jump.

The cheaper price is with the Titan Dome tweeter while the higher one is with the Raal ribbon tweeter

 

[Mort]

The cheaper price is with the Titan Dome tweeter while the higher one is with the Raal ribbon tweeter

Ahh, ok. Thank you. I would strongly prefer the RAAL but I'm sure the dome has its proponents.

 

[Multicore]

Ahh, ok. Thank you. I would strongly prefer the RAAL but I'm sure the dome has its proponents.

The extra price of the ribbon has gotten so high that I wouldn't go for it now, though we have the older Sierra Tower with the ribbon and enjoy them very much. The spinorama with the Titan tweeter is good and even David Fabrikant's subjective description of the ribbon advantage isn't quite convincing to me for $1300, and he's a big fan.

 

[Mort]

The extra price of the ribbon has gotten so high that I wouldn't go for it now, though we have the older Sierra Tower with the ribbon and enjoy them very much. The spinorama with the Titan tweeter is good and even David Fabrikant's subjective description of the ribbon advantage isn't quite convincing to me for $1300, and he's a big fan.

Right. It's not the on axis frequency response, but the wider directivity and ease of crossover. I would not get the dome when the Philharmonic Audio BMR Tower is the same price with the RAAL tweeter, a half octave of sub bass notwithstanding.

I just bought a BMR monitor this weekend so I obviously like that tweeter.

 

[LTig]

well. for me a phone or anything similar as a sound source is not something serious to look at at all.

Connect your phone or tablet via USB OTG to a decent DAC and you'll change your mind. Even a good Blutooth connection can be transparent.