Speaker wires in short steel or alu tubes

[Soundproof]

Hie,

Considering making my own speaker stands for Vesa mount bookshelf speakers, aiming for hidden cables from base entry to speaker terminals - likely Canare Quad.

If using 2 small dia pipes (40-60 cm length), splitting the Canare Quad cable at the base of the stand, running + and - separated and through one pipe each, will that cause trouble if using steelpipes?

 

[voodooless]

Except that you will not have the benefit of having the star-quad layout (if there is any), there is no negative effect. Just make sure that you don’t create any shorts.

 

[Soundproof]

Except that you will not have the benefit of having the star-quad layout (if there is any), there is no negative effect. Just make sure that you don’t create any shorts.

Thanks, won't be shortciruits. Expect the cables to be short, and steel tubing was the only thing I was worried about (newbie).

Arendal 1961 monitors on their own aren't really doing the interior any favours on their own and worse with typical stands on a TV bench. In order to get them in the right height, thus I will try to make a feature out of them. Will probably wrap the cable in cotton (white, dyed to taste) to keep it discrete between the base and the amps.

Much obliged

 

[mrehorst]

Separating the wires increases inductance. Whether that has any audible effect is another matter.

 

[Chrispy]

Overthinking it. Just route the cable where you want it to go rather than trying to separate it etc.

 

[Soundproof]

Separating the wires increases inductance. Whether that has any audible effect is another matter.

Probably won't, but I have virtually no competence in this area, thus better safe than sorry.

Overthinking it. Just route the cable where you want it to go rather than trying to separate it etc.

In general, I prefer to check with competent people rather than doing the job and getting it wrong. My assumption was in accordance with Voodooless and mrehorst, normally I would have filled small pipes like these to stiffen them up or used solid rods. But I really want to hide the cable and the pipes would likely be too large dia if not splitting.

Thanks for you help, both of you, much obliged

 

[fpitas]

Separating the wires increases inductance. Whether that has any audible effect is another matter.

Yes, the ideal as far as I'm concerned is twisted, not separated. But regular zip cord isn't bad.

 

[somebodyelse]

If using 2 small dia pipes (40-60 cm length), splitting the Canare Quad cable at the base of the stand, running + and - separated and through one pipe each, will that cause trouble if using steelpipes?

I'm not sure I understand correctly how you intend to split them. If you split into 2 pairs where each pair has a + and a - then the loop area is still minimised so the inductance won't increase much. If you put both + in one pipe and both - in the other pipe then you increase loop area and with it the inductance. On the other hand with a steel pipe I'm not confident about the effect but I have a feeling that with the +/- pair inside it could act as an external core and increase inductance. That wouldn't be a problem with aluminium.

 

[fpitas]

I'm not sure I understand correctly how you intend to split them. If you split into 2 pairs where each pair has a + and a - then the loop area is still minimised so the inductance won't increase much. If you put both + in one pipe and both - in the other pipe then you increase loop area and with it the inductance. On the other hand with a steel pipe I'm not confident about the effect but I have a feeling that with the +/- pair inside it could act as an external core and increase inductance. That wouldn't be a problem with aluminium.

The steel might also be non-linear and introduce distortion. Not sure if it would be audible, but then I'm not sure what the pipes do.

 

[Soundproof]

I'm not sure I understand correctly how you intend to split them. If you split into 2 pairs where each pair has a + and a - then the loop area is still minimised so the inductance won't increase much. If you put both + in one pipe and both - in the other pipe then you increase loop area and with it the inductance. On the other hand with a steel pipe I'm not confident about the effect but I have a feeling that with the +/- pair inside it could act as an external core and increase inductance. That wouldn't be a problem with aluminium.

Using 2 low dia pipes is an aesthetic choice, each speaker is abt 7.5 kg. I will make a Vesa plate welded to the two pipes which will be bent 90 deg in the base where the 2 pipes will be welded together in a Y. Hence the choice of quad cable, a single cable in, split inside the base. Using 1 or 2 larger dia pipes will ruin the aesthetics and make the concept kind of pointless.

Both is feasible, but I was focusing upon ++ and -- rather than +- and +- because I assumed it would highlight the potential issues with steel pipes to a larger extent.

Using alu, I would much likely have to use high quality alloys/hardened like T6061 used in bicycles and so on as the basic soft alu bends too easily.

 

[fpitas]

Using 2 low dia pipes is an aesthetic choice, each speaker is abt 7.5 kg. I will make a Vesa plate welded to the two pipes which will be bent 90 deg in the base where the 2 pipes will be welded together in a Y. Hence the choice of quad cable, a single cable in, split inside the base. Using 1 or 2 larger dia pipes will ruin the aesthetics and make the concept kind of pointless.

Both is feasible, but I was focusing upon ++ and -- rather than +- and +- because I assumed it would highlight the potential issues with steel pipes to a larger extent.

Using alu, I would much likely have to use high quality alloys/hardened like T6061 used in bicycles and so on as the basic soft alu bends too easily.

If a metal tube of any sort is required, I would definitely twist + and - together to minimize the stray magnetic field.

 

[Soundproof]

Points taken

Best options: Alu and if possible, no split before exiting the pipe, 2nd alternative twisted +- pairs and alu pipes. Will check out availability of small dia high quality alu pipes.

 

[Speedskater]

To be redundant:
All the wires need to go thru the same metal tube.
Same goes for AC power wires.
Also for a ferrite choke rather than a metal tube.

 

[Devnull]

It's a 40 cm run, just keep the+ - together. The distortion the speaker makes will swamp the distortion, if any, that a wire generates.

 

[Soundproof]

Checked out a few options for alu and carbon, only 6m lengths for alu of relevant dia, and carbon is out because it cant be shaped with a 90 deg bend.. Believe there's a mechanical/metal workshop not far away (was sure they were gone), if they have suitable alu, I go with them, if not, steel.

 

[mrehorst]

Checked out a few options for alu and carbon, only 6m lengths for alu of relevant dia, and carbon is out because it cant be shaped with a 90 deg bend.. Believe there's a mechanical/metal workshop not far away (was sure they were gone), if they have suitable alu, I go with them, if not, steel.

Copper plumbing pipe is readily available with elbows, tees, and other joints. You can cut it with a tubing cutter and solder it with a propane torch. Or just epoxy it since you don't need to worry about water leaks...
Your forum cred will go up with audiophiles if you tell them you used oxygen-free copper pipe to shield the cables from "electromagnetic interference".

 

[Soundproof]

Copper plumbing pipe is readily available with elbows, tees, and other joints. You can cut it with a tubing cutter and solder it with a propane torch. Or just epoxy it since you don't need to worry about water leaks...
Your forum cred will go up with audiophiles if you tell them you used oxygen-free copper pipe to shield the cables from "electromagnetic interference".

As you understand, I am not really competent as far as electromagnetic fields goes, thus somewhat humourously I thought of grounding or snakepipes

Don't really need joints for the bends as it will clutter the looks. Just have to fill the pipes with sand capable of withstanding the heat (most will) and heat it before bending it. To keep it open and not reducing the inner diameter that much in the bend.

But you did put me on an alternative idea for fastening the vesa bracket to the pipes. 2 10-12 cm pieces of pipe with inner dia matching the outer dia of the fixed pipes and slots for the cable exits, if I decide I want height adjustment capabilities. More likely, I will establish the right height beforehand, then weld the vesa brackets to the pipes.

The height of TV bench tops (mine is 240cm x 40 cm deep) is pretty fixed determined of the natural placement of the TV thus once defined, it should be fine for any change.

 

[mrehorst]

t-slot aluminum is easy to work with, and if you get something like 2040 it will have a central hole large enough to accommodate the cables. It's pretty cheap and can look nice if you get stuff that's anodized. It helps to have a milling machine to square up ends so the pieces can be screwed together without a lot of plates and visible hardware. You can order the stuff and related hardware via amazon.com.

This is my coffee table made from 2020 (blue) and 2040 (black) t-slot.

I'm currently rebuilding my Quad ESL-63s into 989s using black anodized 3060 t-slot frames. Most t-slot extrusions have one or more standard tap-sized central holes that run the length of the extrusion so you can use button head cap screws to screw the ends to other t-slot or to flat plates. The 3060 shown below has 6.8mm holes that can be tapped for M8 threads. That is how the cross bars and feet are attached in the speaker frames.

You can get a variety of t-nuts that fit into the slots to allow easy attachment of whatever you want/need, anywhere along the length of the extrusion. If you use 30 or 40 mm t-slot, standard 5/16" carriage bolt heads will fit in the 8mm slots. I have access to a a machine shop at the Milwaukee Makerspace and do all the metal work there. For t-slot work I bought myself a 1/2" diameter x 2" long carbide mill so I can square the ends of the t-slot (and match the lengths exactly) to get square frames when I screw the stuff together. You can buy t-slot in different lengths that are usually sawed to length. I'm not sure if the cuts are square enough to just bolt things together without milling. I always mill them.

 

[mrehorst]

An alternative is to use gas/water pipe. You can buy it in different lengths with the ends already threaded, so a speaker stand can be as easy as using top and bottom wood and a single piece of pipe with two flanges. I made a plant stand using such pipe and the style fits well in my old, industrial condo building:

 

[Soundproof]

Yeah, am aware of both the plumming variations and extruded alu profiles. But neither will work for the concept I have in mind, and neither will work aesthetically for my plan.

An alternative is to use gas/water pipe. You can buy it in different lengths with the ends already threaded, so a speaker stand can be as easy as using top and bottom wood and a single piece of pipe with two flanges. I made a plant stand using such pipe and the style fits well in my old, industrial condo building:

My budget audio projects - 3 at various early stages at the moment - recently increased by a 4th, the latter being decent monitors for my desk. The options for now are iLoud Micro Pro and iLoud MTM MKII, both which I believe are fixed by a bottom 3/8" bolt. As I prefer as few units as possible on the desk surface, I am exploring options for how to place them.

One is adding (and modifying) a 2 arm unit to my Ergotron LX monitor stand, another is a Ergotron HX triple bow kit which bends backward 90 deg. Also have had a brief look at drumkit hardware, and with your nice table, you put me on an idea using (discreetly and minimalistic if possible) plumming pipes, joints and plugs/adapters as parts are readlily available in chromed copper and plain copper which can be painted/laquered. Can get the hardware in suitable dimensions, and it is not as sensitive as the planned monitor stands where I doubt the plumming approach can be used retainging the clean aesthetics. Could also be used for the modification/adapting to Ergotron HX/LX or simpler options.

Thanks, much obliged