audio2design
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We could pretend we are "audiophiles" and debate the merits of cable elevators for a bit?
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Speaker wires don't carry any energy (power).
- Thread starter Cbdb2
- Start date
We could pretend we are "audiophiles" and debate the merits of cable elevators for a bit?
Ok. For cables on the floor the external EM field will propagate in two differing dielectric materials (air and floor) with differing electric and magnetic permeabilities and hence speeds of light. This causes a dislocation in the signal resulting in.... (to be completed by the reader.) Adding risers mitigates this to a degree proportional to ones sensitivity to your chosen effect.
Regards Andrew
PS this is not to be taken too seriously
My "special" view of those crazy nuts is that they use them on wood floors on a wood floor foundation with dirt underneath or a cement slab. I am just not convinced of the electronic behavior of wood fibers. Morons, idiots, loony nutjobs. Oh wait, that may have been harsh. I take it all back as I'm being the nicer kinder version of me! Once again, I'm correcting myself as I take the high road........
You are baiting me. It is like waving a steak in front of a dog. I am holding back at the moment. But I could launch on this topic. But, again, I'm going to take the high road. Me and Mother Theresa!
Raindog123
Major Contributor
….and when you can’t contain yourself any longer, I suggest you go here:
Questions on cable lifter measuring
While the essential role of cables in sound reproduction has been firmly stablished, I feel the functions of cable lifters are much less defined. I would suggest there are four roles that cable lifters must perform. Defining these roles may help us in designing proper scientific testing...
www.audiosciencereview.com
- Thread Starter
- #446
After the last ??? pages in this thread is should be obvious that there is (practicaly) zero EM field outside a coax cable and almost zero around a twinlead, its almost all in the space between the cables. So lifters are nonsense.
That's what measurements say. You need to trust your ears instead. measuring things never tells you how they really sound. Oh, and the higher the price, the better the sound. Everyone knows that more money means better sound. Heck, if you spend enough on speakers ($30,000/pr) you do not have to bother with EQ or room treatments. Lifters seem to only work once they are above $500 a pair. The cheaper ones are just scams.
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audio2design
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Electroboom did not bring much to the conversation. Simplistic transmission line model missing mutual induction, and lacking antenna effects. It will turn on right away, but after that the complexities will come into play.
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Someone finally did the experiment!
TLDR: current starts to flow immediately. Full current after light speed delay.
TLDR: current starts to flow immediately. Full current after light speed delay.
Immediately?
The leakage current due to C was faster but iirc he still measured a time.
He also clipped the end of the wire, the C charged then I fell to 0.
Induction at 12 VDC is moot.
His drawings were confusing, the wave propagates around the wire and close.
It could be aregued the POWER is conveyed by the wire.
Energy = Joules
Power = W = J/sec
P = V I, I = coulomb/sec
Coulomb is a measure of charge.
Which creates the fields
Put DC into a transformer, tell me what you get on the secondary.
You'll have a field, but that is about it.
If you look at Maxwell's equation there is a direct correlation
B ~ I
E ~ V
Video was click bait for $, not education
audio2design
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I did it with a short run weeks ago and posted a graph here full current is longer than light speed delay due to reflections.
PCBD&F - a trade mag for EE's and PCB designers:
digital.upmediagroup.com
"Au: This article emphasizes the need to concentrate on design of transmission lines, or the “spaces,” instead of the “wires.” The industry focus has been on the movement of charges in the wires, which only occurs because the electric fields are moving. The energy is carried by the fields, not the displacement current. My apologies to the EM physicists for oversimplifying these concepts, but this approach will increase the chances of success for most designs....
Daniel Beeker is senior principal engineer, automotive field applications engineering, NXP Semiconductors"
The Billion-Dollar Mistake
Engineering teams worldwide are facing increasingly difficult challenges to design electronic products and achieve good signal integrity and compliance.
digital.upmediagroup.com
"Au: This article emphasizes the need to concentrate on design of transmission lines, or the “spaces,” instead of the “wires.” The industry focus has been on the movement of charges in the wires, which only occurs because the electric fields are moving. The energy is carried by the fields, not the displacement current. My apologies to the EM physicists for oversimplifying these concepts, but this approach will increase the chances of success for most designs....
Daniel Beeker is senior principal engineer, automotive field applications engineering, NXP Semiconductors"
The flow of charge results in the field.
V and I are used because they represent the energy (energy/time or power) in the field. It is simpler to meter I when 'counting' power.
The fields are considered when designing HV T & D lines, but this 'energy is in the fields' concept is not new and is well understood by EE's. Fields and waves is a fundamental course.
The I in a motor winding creates the fields that generate the torque.
The I in a transformer creates the flux fields that induce I in the secondary.
The debate is rather silly.
How large is the H field around a #12 with 10 A? mm, meters? Say 90% loss from 1 mm?
V and I are used because they represent the energy (energy/time or power) in the field. It is simpler to meter I when 'counting' power.
The fields are considered when designing HV T & D lines, but this 'energy is in the fields' concept is not new and is well understood by EE's. Fields and waves is a fundamental course.
The I in a motor winding creates the fields that generate the torque.
The I in a transformer creates the flux fields that induce I in the secondary.
The debate is rather silly.
How large is the H field around a #12 with 10 A? mm, meters? Say 90% loss from 1 mm?
audio2design
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PCBD&F - a trade mag for EE's and PCB designers:
The Billion-Dollar Mistake
Engineering teams worldwide are facing increasingly difficult challenges to design electronic products and achieve good signal integrity and compliance.
"Au: This article emphasizes the need to concentrate on design of transmission lines, or the “spaces,” instead of the “wires.” The industry focus has been on the movement of charges in the wires, which only occurs because the electric fields are moving. The energy is carried by the fields, not the displacement current. My apologies to the EM physicists for oversimplifying these concepts, but this approach will increase the chances of success for most designs....
Daniel Beeker is senior principal engineer, automotive field applications engineering, NXP Semiconductors"
Yes when your signals have fast edges. This is something many EEs do every day. It's much easier now with newer PCB tools.
Robert Ferenac and Eric Bogatin:
Explaining Veritasium Electricity Video: Energy doesn't flow in wires (with Eric Bogatin)
EEVblog 1439 - Analysing Veritasium's Electricity Misconceptions Video:
The vid they are refering to from Veritasium - the physicist that's been on lot's o PBS specials:
The Big Misconception About Electricity:
Explaining Veritasium Electricity Video: Energy doesn't flow in wires (with Eric Bogatin)
EEVblog 1439 - Analysing Veritasium's Electricity Misconceptions Video:
The vid they are refering to from Veritasium - the physicist that's been on lot's o PBS specials:
The Big Misconception About Electricity:
There are more videos debunking it.
He contrived an impossible scenario.
No R
Waves/current at the speed of light
There is a propagation velocity. < c
Both impossible
This guy actually showing how silly it was
Either he is making an absurd claim or all theses textbooks that have been used for decades are not valid
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Raindog123
Major Contributor
So, as we're still kicking this dead horse...
Back to basics. What happens here? How are the fields distributed right before and after the switch is closed (and what fields)?
How fast does the bulb turn on?
Back to basics. What happens here? How are the fields distributed right before and after the switch is closed (and what fields)?
How fast does the bulb turn on?
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If anyone wants to calculate the inductance, don't forget to consider the effect of the iron core.So, as we're still kicking this dead horse...
Back to basics. What happens here? How are the fields distributed right before and after the switch is closed (and what fields)?
View attachment 181313
How fast does the bulb turn on?
