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Speaker wire

Suffolkhifinut

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That is considered though at the tuning of the loudspeaker as typical hifi is designed for voltage and not current sources, a reason why for high output impedance amplifiers like many tube amps loudspeakers with a linearised impedance are needed as otherwise some extra FR sounding will result.
Can’t see it unless you are talking about electrostatic speakers. Cone type speakers are primarily inductive loads and it’s current that counts.
 

fpitas

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Can’t see it unless you are talking about electrostatic speakers. Cone type speakers are primarily inductive loads and it’s current that counts.
You'll find almost every cone driver has been designed with voltage drive in mind.
 

Suffolkhifinut

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You'll find almost every cone driver has been designed with voltage drive in mind.
The science won’t allow it, look at the formulas for inductive loads they all use current in the calculations. With electrostatic loads it’s voltage.
 

fpitas

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The science won’t allow it, look at the formulas for inductive loads they all use current in the calculations. With electrostatic loads it’s voltage.
Well, you'd better check the datasheets. Most speaker designers don't seem to realize that.
 

dualazmak

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I don't see any indication of it being critical?

You mention something about "blur", but give no practical examples and no explanation of the supposed physics responsible for this effect?

Actually, @ctrl analyzed this. It’s gonna take a ton of magnetically susceptible materials to have an audible impact. We should thank nature for this, otherwise our world would be very sensitive place with some very strange and surprising electrical phenomena!

So, no not much impact due to this phenomenon.

Even though I essentially agree with you, I had several empirical experiences having negative effect of cable connection straps. I changed the cheap iron terminals with AudioTechnica's non-magnetic susceptible terminal TDT-40 gives no audible blur at all.

At some of the audio DIY parts shops, they have non-magnetic susceptible terminals like here for example.

We know that many HiFi amplifier manufacturers carefully avoiding the use of magnetic susceptible metals/screws in their power supply parts as well as SP high level output parts; they use pure copper and/or brass screws/plates as far as they can. I once discussed with this topic with Yamaha's audio engineer, and he clearly stated that they empirically know well the negative effect of magnetic susceptible screws and plates.
 

thewas

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More than 99.9999% of all modern amplifier/speaker combinations are designed as voltage source systems. The do very well, thank you.
I didn't write anything else. ;)

Can’t see it unless you are talking about electrostatic speakers. Cone type speakers are primarily inductive loads and it’s current that counts.
I am not talking about the components but that the tuning of the FR is done for voltage and not current sources.
 

Killingbeans

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I once discussed with this topic with Yamaha's audio engineer, and he clearly stated that they empirically know well the negative effect of magnetic susceptible screws and plates.

By "empirically" do they mean that they've done comparative measurements?
 

Doodski

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Even though I essentially agree with you, I had several empirical experiences having negative effect of cable connection straps. I changed the cheap iron terminals with AudioTechnica's non-magnetic susceptible terminal TDT-40 gives no audible blur at all.

At some of the audio DIY parts shops, they have non-magnetic susceptible terminals like here for example.

We know that many HiFi amplifier manufacturers carefully avoiding the use of magnetic susceptible metals/screws in their power supply parts as well as SP high level output parts; they use pure copper and/or brass screws/plates as far as they can. I once discussed with this topic with Yamaha's audio engineer, and he clearly stated that they empirically know well the negative effect of magnetic susceptible screws and plates.
I used a magnetized screwdriver for 15 years servicing audio gear. I still use a magnetized screwdriver for stuff. So maybe I caused damage to audio gear that way?
 

dualazmak

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I used a magnetized screwdriver for 15 years servicing audio gear. I still use a magnetized screwdriver for stuff. So maybe I caused damage to audio gear that way?

I assume and believe that use of "magnetized screwdriver" should have no problem at all, but "magnetizable" screw and terminal strap could cause the more blur issue.

"At least in my case in my rather sensitive audio setup", I and my wife, as well as two of my audio enthu friends, subjectively clearly could hear, even slight but "audible" difference in sound blur, between magnetizable screws+terminal straps (iron) and non-magnetizable ones in my SP cabling board. Consequently, all the screws and terminal strips are non-magnetizable ones now.
WS003804.JPG


If you hear no difference in your own audio setup/gears between magnetizable and non-magnetizable ones, you may trust your subjective belief; I have no objection on your observation.

I do not like to go into objective proof approach of my (our) experience since I have no precision "measurement" instruments nor engineering knowledge.

One of the Yamaha engineers, as well as one of the Rotel engineers, said that many of their production/assembly people raised complaints for they cannot/could-not catch the pure copper screws with magnetized screwdrivers causing considerable work inefficiency in the facility. The amp designers had intensive explanation and guidance sessions for the production people on the pros of non-magnetizable screws/terminals in amp building, and the facility people finally understood and accepted. I once heard almost the same story from a Marantz engineer.
 
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Killingbeans

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The amp designers had intensive explanation and guidance sessions for the production people on the pros of non-magnetizable screws in amp building, and the facility people finally understood and accepted.

I'd really, really like to hear that explanation. I doubt it's anything but pseudoscience nonsense.

I've serviced some gear that has non-magnetic screws and bolts, and I truly feel the pain of those poor assembly workers.
 

Suffolkhifinut

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I didn't write anything else. ;)


I am not talking about the components but that the tuning of the FR is done for voltage and not current sources.
To get a magnetic effect you need to have magnetic flux and from that flux density. What do you need to get magnetic flux? You need Magnetising Force.
Magnetising Force = Amperes x Turns
 

dualazmak

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I'd really, really like to hear that explanation. I doubt it's anything but pseudoscience nonsense.

I've serviced some gear that has non-magnetic screws and bolts, and I truly feel the pain of those poor assembly workers.

Hope your web browser properly translate this page into English...
https://audiodesign.co.jp/blog/?p=840
 

thewas

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To get a magnetic effect you need to have magnetic flux and from that flux density. What do you need to get magnetic flux? You need Magnetising Force.
Magnetising Force = Amperes x Turns
And you have automatically also magnetic field when you have movement of electric charge, thus in any conductor when electric current passes through.
 

Suffolkhifinut

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And you have automatically also magnetic field when you have movement of electric charge, thus in any conductor when electric current passes through.
When a current is passed through a conductor a magnetic field is set up around the conductor.
 

thewas

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When a current is passed through a conductor a magnetic field is set up around the conductor.
That's what I wrote, by the way to continue the off topic the flux lines are perpendicular and concentric circles to the current and their direction can be determined with the right hand rule.
 

MAB

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I assume and believe that use of "magnetized screwdriver" should have no problem at all, but "magnetizable" screw and terminal strip could cause the more blur issue.

"At least in my case in my rather sensitive audio setup", I and my wife, as well as two of my audio enthu friends, subjectively clearly could hear, even slight but "audible" difference in sound blur, between magnetizable screws+terminal straps (iron) and non-magnetizable ones in my SP cabling board. Consequently, all the screws and terminal strips are non-magnetizable ones now. View attachment 246026

If you hear no difference in your own audio setup/gears between magnetizable and non-magnetizable ones, you may trust your subjective belief; I have no objection on your observation.

I do not like to go into objective proof approach of my (our) experience since I have no precision "measurement" instruments nor engineering knowledge.

One of the Yamaha engineers, as well as one of the Rotel engineers, said that many of their production/assembly people raised complaints for they cannot/could-not catch the pure copper screws with magnetized screwdrivers causing considerable work inefficiency in the facility. The amp designers had intensive explanation and guidance sessions for the production people on the pros of non-magnetizable screws/terminals in amp building, and the facility people finally understood and accepted. I once heard almost the same story from a Marantz engineer.
While I want to believe that perfection in materials or subtle optimizations like non-magnetic fasteners make a difference, they don’t. Don’t get me wrong, the parasitic inductance of a steel screw can be measured and it is non zero. And the resultant change in the acoustic response can be measured, and calculated from that inductance. Problem is, that change is on the order of 0.1dB at or beyond the edge of human hearing. Even 0.1dB in critical midrange band is undetectable by ears.
We should be happy about this. I do not want to live in a world where electronic interactions like this cause macroscopic phenomena. It would be a bummer if things like changes in the earth’s magnetic field induces a changes in electronics performance. I wouldn’t say this except these types of non-phenomena have been used to get audiophile enthusiasts to spend all sorts of time and money on non-audibles. And, hifi industry can be very predatory.
 

dualazmak

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While I want to believe that perfection in materials or subtle optimizations like non-magnetic fasteners make a difference, they don’t. Don’t get me wrong, the parasitic inductance of a steel screw can be measured and it is non zero. And the resultant change in the acoustic response can be measured, and calculated from that inductance. Problem is, that change is on the order of 0.1dB at or beyond the edge of human hearing. Even 0.1dB in critical midrange band is undetectable by ears.
We should be happy about this. I do not want to live in a world where electronic interactions like this cause macroscopic phenomena. It would be a bummer if things like changes in the earth’s magnetic field induces a changes in electronics performance. I wouldn’t say this except these types of non-phenomena have been used to get audiophile enthusiasts to spend all sorts of time and money on non-audibles. And, hifi industry can be very predatory.

You may of course continue using magnetizable screws and terminal straps if you have no audible difference compared with non-magnetizable ones "in your setup".

In my case, however, we repeatedly heard and confirmed the difference, and I spent a very little extra money (less than US$ 60) for my non-magnetizable ones. As I wrote here and here, my SP cables (AWG 12 and AWG 10, so many and rather long ones, 6 m each), as well as the tin-plated pure copper Y-lugs/R-lugs, are relatively (very) cheap well affordable ones.
 

DonR

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You may of course continue using magnetizable screws and terminal straps if you have no audible difference compared with non-magnetizable ones "in your setup".

In my case, however, we repeatedly heard and confirmed the difference, and I spent a very little extra money (less than US$ 60) for my non-magnetizable ones. As I wrote here and here, my SP cables (AWG 12 and AWG 10, so many and rather long ones, 6 m each), as well as the tin-plated pure copper Y-lugs/R-lugs, are relatively (very) cheap well affordable ones.
Did you conduct a double-blind test?
 

MAB

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You may of course continue using magnetizable screws and terminal straps if you have no audible difference compared with non-magnetizable ones "in your setup".

In my case, however, we repeatedly heard and confirmed the difference, and I spent a very little extra money (less than US$ 60) for my non-magnetizable ones. As I wrote here and here, my SP cables (AWG 12 and AWG 10, so many and rather long ones, 6 m each), as well as the tin-plated pure copper Y-lugs/R-lugs, are relatively (very) cheap well affordable ones.
Yes, I understand.
I appreciate and love your hifi. And the fact that you have sourced and built your kit, and documented…. Even more respect.
Too much of the industry is predatory and charges tons of money based on fear. Apple juice for babies is twice the price of apple juice for adults, same product, made from the same apples. Same for low sodium, much more expensive for the same product minus a few grams of salt. I am also against unnecessary medical procedures even if cheap. I’m against uneccessary snake oil in cars, because it has a large negative impact on the broad market - all of those high performance mods that make your car slower and less reliable really do drag the industry down. And are unnecessary. hifi has some of the worst of these unnecessary distractions and is so susceptible to sighted bias.
 
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