Speaker Wire Suggestion

[absolutehifi]

Hi, I am re-arranging my amp and need longer speaker wires. My speakers are a pair of Dynaudio Confidence C4's. I have been using wires that were given to me by a friend 30 years ago (show in the pictures below) and I love the sound. The wires are 10 gauge (maybe 12 gauge, but definitely no thinner than 12). The width is about 12.6mm or half an inch. Does anyone know what wire this is? Or can anyone suggest similar wires that has extra separation/spacing between the two copper cores (10-12 AWG OFC)?

I have tried some generic (Installgear) 12 AWG OFC wires, which use PVC insolation. Those wires don't have the extra separation between the two copper cores. Surprisingly they don't sound nearly as good (I thought speaker wires don't matter. Boy I was wrong!). So I'd like to stick with something similar to what I have been using, something with the extra separation between the copper. Please advise. Thanks!

 

[DVDdoug]

Any "speaker wire" or "zip cord" is fine. It should be marked somehow so you can keep the + and - connections straight on both ends. Sometimes there is a white stripe, or one wire is tinned silver-color and the other is bare copper, etc.

Speaker wires are not critical as long as the resistance is low (relative to speaker impedance).

16 AWG copper or "fatter" is usually OK if the wire-runs aren't long. 16 AWG is 4 ohms per 1000 feet or 0.08 Ohms for 10-feet "round trip". (Wire Resistance Chart)

"OFC" isn't necessary but it's best to avoid "CCA" (copper clad aluminum) because it has slightly higher resistance and the gauge has to be lower to be equivalent.

urprisingly they don't sound nearly as good (I thought speaker wires don't matter. Boy I was wrong!).

You'd find that you were right if you were to do a proper blind listening test.
What is a blind ABX test?
Controlled Audio Blind Listening Tests (video)

 

[quattro98]

Hi, I am re-arranging my amp and need longer speaker wires. My speakers are a pair of Dynaudio Confidence C4's. I have been using wires that were given to me by a friend 30 years ago (show in the pictures below) and I love the sound. The wires are 10 gauge (maybe 12 gauge, but definitely no thinner than 12). The width is about 12.6mm or half an inch. Does anyone know what wire this is? Or can anyone suggest similar wires that has extra separation/spacing between the two copper cores (10-12 AWG OFC)?

I have tried some generic (Installgear) 12 AWG OFC wires, which use PVC insolation. Those wires don't have the extra separation between the two copper cores. Surprisingly they don't sound nearly as good (I thought speaker wires don't matter. Boy I was wrong!). So I'd like to stick with something similar to what I have been using, something with the extra separation between the copper. Please advise. Thanks!

As noted in the prior post, the speaker wires of any reasonable configuration and gauge will not affect the sound. It's impossible to objectively judge this through uncontrolled listening.

If you want a different wire configuration, a star quad setup is an option. Canare 4S11 looks nice and is well made with high quality materials.

Canare 4S11 Star Quad 14AWG 4-Conductor Speaker Cable - Grey - Per Foot

The Canare 4S11 is a high quality speaker cable with heavy duty 4 x 14 AWG conductors recommended for long runs and low end power amplifier sub-woofer systems.

www.markertek.com

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?q=4s11&filters=fct_brand_name%3Acanare

https://www.markertek.com/Attachments/Specifications/Canare/4S11-Specifications.pdf

 

[kyuu]

There's no mechanism by which the speaker cable can change the sound, as long as it's of adequate diameter to keep resistance low over the distance of the run. Unless your run is unusually long, 12AWG should be more than sufficient. There's no need for spacing between the conductors beyond the wire's insulation.

Do make sure to check that your terminations and connections are good, however. If there is poor contact being made between the wire and any terminations or connections that could conceivably cause a high enough resistance to make an audible difference.

 

[quattro98]

Hi, I am re-arranging my amp and need longer speaker wires. My speakers are a pair of Dynaudio Confidence C4's. I have been using wires that were given to me by a friend 30 years ago (show in the pictures below) and I love the sound. The wires are 10 gauge (maybe 12 gauge, but definitely no thinner than 12). The width is about 12.6mm or half an inch. Does anyone know what wire this is? Or can anyone suggest similar wires that has extra separation/spacing between the two copper cores (10-12 AWG OFC)?

I have tried some generic (Installgear) 12 AWG OFC wires, which use PVC insolation. Those wires don't have the extra separation between the two copper cores. Surprisingly they don't sound nearly as good (I thought speaker wires don't matter. Boy I was wrong!). So I'd like to stick with something similar to what I have been using, something with the extra separation between the copper. Please advise. Thanks!

Do you have a picture of the wire used? There are several Installgear listings on Amazon for CCA (copper clad aluminum). Copper is preferred. I like wires from Belden or Canare so I know what I'm getting. With random brands, it's up to trusting the manufacturer.

Pictures of the connections at the amp and speaker might help troubleshoot as well.

InstallGear: Speaker Wire

speaker wire cable

www.amazon.com

Loading…

www.amazon.com

When 12 Gauge Wire is Not 12 Gauge

Introduction Why test 12 gauge (AWG) wire? 12 AWG speaker wire is a “safe bet” from performance point of view because anything thinner may interact with the low impedance of your speakers and cause the frequency response to vary beyond threshold of hearing (-0.5 dB). That change can “color”...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Search results for "belden speaker wire"

www.parts-express.com

 

[Barrelhouse Solly]

When Monster cable first appeared in the early '80s one of the hifi magazines did a double blind test using Monster and zip cord. The results were that the golden ear panel could not reliably detect any difference. The null hypothesis won. It was one of my watershed moments in audio. Banana plugs that make a solid connection with the speaker/amp and the wire are a good thing to have if you have those connectors.

 

[quattro98]

When Monster cable first appeared in the early '80s one of the hifi magazines did a double blind test using Monster and zip cord. The results were that the golden ear panel could not reliably detect any difference. The null hypothesis won. It was one of my watershed moments in audio. Banana plugs that make a solid connection with the speaker/amp and the wire are a good thing to have if you have those connectors.

Speaker Cables: Can You Hear the Difference?

The results of blind listening tests with eleven audio experts.

www.soundandvision.com

https://assets.kef.com/pdf_doc/product-archive/1970s/REFERENCE+SERIES+MODEL+105.2+%281979-87%29/Reference_Series_Model_105_2_r.pdf

 

[voodooless]

So I'd like to stick with something similar to what I have been using, something with the extra separation between the copper. Please advise.

How do you know it’s the separation that causes the audible difference? It could very well be a different type of fairy dust…

I all seriousness, people already gave you the correct advice! I would urge you to take it!

 

[NTK]

Hi, I am re-arranging my amp and need longer speaker wires. My speakers are a pair of Dynaudio Confidence C4's. I have been using wires that were given to me by a friend 30 years ago (show in the pictures below) and I love the sound. The wires are 10 gauge (maybe 12 gauge, but definitely no thinner than 12). The width is about 12.6mm or half an inch. Does anyone know what wire this is? Or can anyone suggest similar wires that has extra separation/spacing between the two copper cores (10-12 AWG OFC)?

I have tried some generic (Installgear) 12 AWG OFC wires, which use PVC insolation. Those wires don't have the extra separation between the two copper cores. Surprisingly they don't sound nearly as good (I thought speaker wires don't matter. Boy I was wrong!). So I'd like to stick with something similar to what I have been using, something with the extra separation between the copper. Please advise. Thanks!

In my audiophool days, I would have considered Van Den Hul
But I'm always happy to assist my fellow hifi enthusiasts to part with their money

Loudspeaker cables

www.vandenhul.com

 

[Apesbrain]

Those cables are branded Canton, but I can't find any other image of them online:

Anyway, that construction is very similar to the original Monster Cable which is still available:

Monster Cable for sale | eBay

Get the best deals for Monster Cable at eBay.com. We have a great online selection at the lowest prices with Fast & Free shipping on many items!

www.ebay.com

 

[mhardy6647]

1) Wonder what the capacitance of at 'twinlead' cable is?
2) Might be tough on marginally stable amplifiers(?).

 

[terryforsythe]

View attachment 503670
1) Wonder what the capacitance of at 'twinlead' cable is?
2) Might be tough on marginally stable amplifiers(?).

Capacitance decreases with distance. Thus, all other things being equal (e.g., dielectric constant of the insullation), the capacitance should be lower than that of conventional zip cord. On the other hand, the increased distance between the wires will decrease the magnetic field cancellation a tiny bit. So, the inductance might be just a smidgen higher.

The circuit would need to be modelled for analysis to determine if the lower capacitance and higher inductance would cause an issue with a marginally stable amplifier. But, the capacitance and inductance differences should be small enough to not have a significant effect. If they do have an audible effect, then it is a very poorly designed amplifier.

 

[NTK]

View attachment 503670
1) Wonder what the capacitance of at 'twinlead' cable is?
2) Might be tough on marginally stable amplifiers(?).

Capacitance and inductance calculators:

Wire Pair Capacitance

Capacitance calculator for a wire pair. Calculates the capacitance of a circular pair of conductors in a homogeneous medium.

www.emisoftware.com

EMI Software Calculations

Inductance calculator for a wire pair. Calculates the inductance of a circular pair of conductors separated a uniform distance over their length.

www.emisoftware.com

 

[eddantes]

Snip the ends off. Comes in a sexy orange too!

 

[mhardy6647]

Capacitance decreases with distance. Thus, all other things being equal (e.g., dielectric constant of the insullation), the capacitance should be lower than that of conventional zip cord. On the other hand, the increased distance between the wires will decrease the magnetic field cancellation a tiny bit. So, the inductance might be just a smidgen higher.

The circuit would need to be modelled for analysis to determine if the lower capacitance and higher inductance would cause an issue with a marginally stable amplifier. But, the capacitance and inductance differences should be small enough to not have a significant effect. If they do have an audible effect, then it is a very poorly designed amplifier.

Yes, you're right (and I am... well... kind of a dope)! Thank you for the reminder(s)!
Reactive speaker cables wreaked havoc on the 'high end' amplifiers (and some not so high end) in the early days of boutique wires (late-'70s into the '80s).

 

[voodooless]

View attachment 503675

Snip the ends off. Comes in a sexy orange too!

Only 16 AWG. That’s not really enough. 12 AWG is a sane minimum.

 

[kyuu]

Only 16 AWG. That’s not really enough. 12 AWG is a sane minimum.

For most setups where we're talking maybe a dozen feet or so at most, it's sufficient. I'm running 14AWG all around, including to my surrounds which are likely 20-25ft runs. 12AWG is the point where you just don't have to worry about it for any likely home setup, I wouldn't call it a "sane minimum".

 

[voodooless]

For most setups where we're talking maybe a dozen feet or so at most, it's sufficient. I'm running 14AWG all around, including to my surrounds which are likely 20-25ft runs.

14 is better than 16, though.

12AWG is the point where you just don't have to worry about it for any likely home setup, I wouldn't call it a "sane minimum".

Sounds like a sane “always works” to me especially for 4R speakers like the OP has.

It doesn’t matter anyway. The OP already has perfectly fine 12 AWG wire. They just need to accept that a wire does not affect sound quality.

 

[PatentLawyer]

Not to pile on, but I'd like to add an anecdote.

I recently got some new furniture in my office and that required me to re-arrange my main rig. In doing so, the very, very, very expensive Audioquest XLR cable between my pre-amp and amp became too short. Rather than spend several thousand dollars on a longer cable, I bought a pair of Mogami Studio Gold for $1XX. Nice cables. But more than that, hand on a Bible, I cannot hear any difference whatsoever.

If Mogami makes speaker cables, I would look at those.

 

[NTK]

If Mogami makes speaker cables, I would look at those.

They do ...

MOGAMI® - Superflexible Studio Speaker Cables

Mogami Superflexible Studio Speaker Cables is designed to meet XLR audio connector cable clamp.

mogamicable.com