Speaker Wire 'Burn in'

[Robin L]

On the other hand, if you inhale the fumes while soldering your wires, you will experience a psychotropic effect that will alter sound quality.

It can also make you very sick. Not recommended.

 

[DannyBukem]

I've found that the universal properties of copper itself must be changing. I've tried many different cables and none of them will reproduce even a 12 kHz test tone no matter how high I boost the signal or how long I let it burn in. I've tried to verify these results with my kids but for some reason they refuse to come to this side of the house anymore.

Maybe the 12khz test one has damaged your ear drums to the point where you no longer hear it?

 

[mansr]

On the other hand, if you inhale the fumes while soldering your wires, you will experience a psychotropic effect that will alter sound quality.

It can also make you very sick. Not recommended.

Someone should start making "solder flux" vape liquid.

 

[mhardy6647]

I can think of a few reasons related to the cable why it might have sounded different, related to the common-mode rejection of the quad arrangement, and in a high-noise environment. The difference should be immediately apparent, assuming the noise is always present (*). No reason the wire itself would change after "burn-in". And again it is always "interesting" how burn-in always and only makes a "positive" change. It is incredibly difficult to believe how much perception can influence the sound, along with emotional state and such. It was shockingly humble to discover how few of the grandiose changes I thought I heard were not really there when I participated in blind testing many years ago. I think emotional and physical state is a huge player in the differences we hear.

FWIWFM - Don

(*) One of the sneaky little changes can happen is when a noise source is intermittent, leading to hearing changes that are real but not necessarily related to any particular component change. Since the difference is sporadic and subtle it is easy to convince ourselves a component change made all the difference, and later we are no longer so focused we simply miss the change induced as the noise source goes on and off. The difference is measurable, natch, assuming you have the instrumentation available and in place to see it. Rare. The recent debate about differential (balanced) circuit noise rejection is a case in point; few of us instrument our systems all the time even if we have access to the equipment, and far fewer have access to an EMC or EMI/RFI test lab and time to run such experiments. Especially when the results are well-known and understood through prior research.

One of the myriad explanations one often sees invoked (vis-a-vis the 'intermittent' comment above) in the "objectivist/subjectivist wars" is that the act of removing and reinserting connections (especially those that have not been disconnected for a long time) may have an audible consequence (but one that's hard to control for) related to oxidation at the connector(s).

 

[mhardy6647]

Someone should start making "solder flux" vape liquid.

Dude! You spilled the beans! You had your chance to be rich. RICH!!

 

[Loathecliff]

Cables deteriorate.
Here is the proof.
In 1967 my speaker cables worked up to 14khz.
Last week I tested them again and they wouldn't go beyond 8khz.
In fact none of the cables I use would go beyond 8khz.
Conclusion:- Cables aren't what they used to be

 

[Inner Space]

Burn-in, as the term is currently used, is 0% technical and 100% psychological. It's part of an elaborate performative ritual, which may include unboxing videos, careful and loving installation, etc, etc, aimed partly at "claiming ownership" of the gear, but mostly at distinguishing the burner-in, in his own mind, from everyone else capable of mail-ordering gear. People need to feel special, possessed of secret knowledge.

 

[DannyBukem]

Have a read at some of the comments in here! Do speaker cables need a burn in period? | Audiogon Discussion Forum

 

[scott wurcer]

I got a good laugh out of that one. Who knows, perhaps it so - the human "burn in" factor

One simple question, how is switching to a completely different wire configuration a test for burn-in of anything?

 

[Beershaun]

Have a read at some of the comments in here! Do speaker cables need a burn in period? | Audiogon Discussion Forum

Amir recently has posted youtube videos on whether or not cables make a difference. Watch those videos and see if they answer your question. One of the underlying assumptions about "burn in" or other change is that there is something audible being contributed by the cables to begin with. So the easy way to test is simply run a signal through the cable and see if their is any noise or distortion contributed to that original signal that was not there before and is it above the audible threshold. The answer has been "no" in the tests Amir has run. So if there is nothing audible to begin with then there is nothing to "Burn in."

 

[mansr]

Testing for the effect is pointless without using proper burn-in music. This seems like a good start:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLC89316C2E042BC85

 

[Robin L]

Testing for the effect is pointless without using proper burn-in music. This seems like a good start:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLC89316C2E042BC85

Proven technology, guaranteed results:

 

[Feyire]

One simple question, how is switching to a completely different wire configuration a test for burn-in of anything?

Just to be clear, I didn't decide to change my cables because I wanted to do a hearing test for "burn-in".

My primary motivation was simply to see if I could hear any difference between my extensively used Mogami 2534 cable and a freshly built and assembled Mogami 2549 cable. In other words, if I put in a cable with less shielding from RF and EM into my system, will I hear any difference (i.e. is my system affected by interference of this nature and if so, will switching to a cable with significantly less shielding ability make these interferences audible?)

Info from Mogami's website on my original cable:

• Mogami 2534 should also be used where intense RFI interference is a problem. Mogami 2534 provides an improvement in signal to noise of 10-20db over equivalent twisted pair cables. Double conductors quad cables are more effective in cancelling noise that can get past even the best of shields and is critical in an environment of high RF and EM interference.

The conclusion to my question was, no, I could not hear any difference between the two cables after having used the new cable over an extensive time. Therefore, I surmised that my system was not being affected by any audible (to me) interference from RF or EM.

However, and this is what I talked about it in my previous post, is when I first swapped in the new and freshly made Mogami 2549 cable, I immediately noticed that something sounded very wrong/strange (as compared to the original cable) - I'm sorry that I can't explain this any better. Surprised at this, I let the system play with the new cable for another few hours and when I came back to listen again, everything sounded normal, or as expected again (i.e. same as with the other cable).

Therefore, I attributed the strange and unexpected sound I initially heard from the new cable as perhaps being caused due to lack of burn-in, because when I came back a few hours later to listen again, everything sounded as expected again. Since I didn't change any other part of the system during that time, this was the only explanation that fit for me. Whether my interpretation is correct or not, I'm not sure, but burn-in is a theory that could fit this phenomenon.

 

[Chrispy]

Have a read at some of the comments in here! Do speaker cables need a burn in period? | Audiogon Discussion Forum

About par for that group....

 

[mansr]

Proven technology, guaranteed results:

Or this:

For German cables:

 

[Robin L]

Or this:

For German cables:

More time-tested Teutonic technology:

 

[DonH56]

One of the myriad explanations one often sees invoked (vis-a-vis the 'intermittent' comment above) in the "objectivist/subjectivist wars" is that the act of removing and reinserting connections (especially those that have not been disconnected for a long time) may have an audible consequence (but one that's hard to control for) related to oxidation at the connector(s).

Yes, I have heard/read that "forever", wiping action making a better connection. Used to be folk would say you needed to pull and re-insert cables once a year or so, and some went so far as to say you needed to cut off the ends and restrip the wires for "new" connections every year or so. Sometimes it makes sort-of sense if there's a loose connection or badly oxidized wires, but in practice I was never able to hear a difference unless the connection was flat-out bad, usually loosened over time. And reliably measuring milli-ohm connections is a pain; need a decent Kelvin (four-wire) probe system, not your average DMM. Yes, I have done it. No, I don't have any data on hand. Nor do I have a meter like that now (used an HP 3458 at the time, not your average meter).

There are micro effects that are completely inaudible AFAIK but there are always those who claim to be able to hear below the Fermi floor or whatever. I lost track of how many times I heard something new in a recording when I swapped in a new XYZ, only to go back to the old cable/component and discover it was there all the time.

I really wish I had the DBT/ABX test data from all the tests I did in the 1980's. It was very apparent how we could steer perceptions with a comment or two only to see the vast new change totally disappear in a DBT. What was more interesting was tracking down the things that did not, and why.

 

[jonfitch]

Speaker wire will oxidize over time, but its not gonna "open up" in a positive way from extended playback lol

 

[mhardy6647]

There are micro effects that are completely inaudible AFAIK but there are always those who claim to be able to hear below the Fermi floor or whatever. I lost track of how many times I heard something new in a recording when I swapped in a new XYZ, only to go back to the old cable/component and discover it was there all the time

You, too, huh?
If you noticed, I didn't put up a strong case for the make/break/burnish hypothesis, but in the context of your earlier post, it seemed worthy of mention (to me, at any rate).

 

[julian_hughes]

My experience of speaker cable changing and affecting sound quality:

I live by the sea, stuff oxidizes. Once in the last decade I found it necessary to snip off an inch or two at each end of my speaker cables and then they were fine again. They are cables of decent gauge and well insulated. They are about 20 years old and longer than they need to be. I'm 54. I am certain they will still be good when I am rotting in the grave. For comparison: poorly insulated, poorly made IEM cables can become useless in a matter of months. The cheap ones are often fine, last forever, but I've also experienced this rapid deterioration with magic woo audiophile stuff