Speaker Upgrades - GR Research

[Selah Audio]

Have you seen the GR mod of the Philharmonic BMR?

 

[Deleted member 2944]

Have you seen the GR mod of the Philharmonic BMR?

Clearly that speaker needed some quality parts.

Dave.

 

[Sonny1]

Wish there was a laugh button option. In the overall scheme of audiofoolery, Danny is a minor offender at times. Compared to the snake oil cable sellers and magic bean crystals out there, his mods are reasonably priced and mostly measurement based. I do t think we will see any BMR mods any time soon. Most of the mass market speakers be modified could use some help (not BMRs or well designed speakers of course).

 

[Selah Audio]

Wish there was a laugh button option. In the overall scheme of audiofoolery, Danny is a minor offender at times. Compared to the snake oil cable sellers and magic bean crystals out there, his mods are reasonably priced and mostly measurement based. I do t think we will see any BMR mods any time soon. Most of the mass market speakers be modified could use some help (not BMRs or well designed speakers of course).

What about those sandcast resistors, binding posts, and "dental floss" laminate core inductors?

 

[Deleted member 2944]

I've figured out why Danny likes corvettes. His little rare earth magnet doesn't stick to them.

Dave.

 

[Selah Audio]

Most likely explanation: your wirewound resistors had enough inductance to create an audible low-pass filter.

There's often very little difference in the inductance to be audible.

 

[Selah Audio]

Has anyone ever heard Danny Ritchie mention there is a fee associated with him evaluating a speaker sent to him? I have yet to hear of an evaluation fee. A speaker is measured and upgrade kit developed. From there it appears totally up to the speaker owner to buy the upgrade or not. Danny is likely not working for free, amortizing his evaluation time across X number of upgrade kits sold. Completely legit business model.

The before and after measurements are certainly in line with achieving as flat as possible FR with good horizontal and vertical FR. The after version would certainly fall in line with what Amir considers good measurements. Dennis Murphy has done the same thing, developing and selling upgrade kits for popular low priced speakers.

Seems like this whole discussion can be boiled down to Chevy vs Ford personal preference. Some prefer a Chevy and would never own a Ford, and vice versa. If you don't like products offered in the free marketplace, develop and sell your own better product.

Danny's measurements are not that thorough. If I were sending a speaker to be modified it would go to Dennis.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Have you seen the GR mod of the Philharmon

Right. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-low-inductance-resistor-is-it-audible.12162/

On the other hand, noninductive resistors are very cheap from Parts Express, so I use them just to avoid any questions.

 

[Selah Audio]

Right. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-low-inductance-resistor-is-it-audible.12162/

On the other hand, noninductive resistors are very cheap from Parts Express, so I use them just to avoid any questions.

Dennis you do know that I was being sarcastic?
There was someone who tested the Dayton resistors and found them to be inductive.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Dennis you do know that I was being sarcastic?
There was someone who tested the Dayton resistors and found them to be inductive.

Sorry--I replied to the wrong post. It was meant for your #86. Dayton resistors inductive? . I'll arrange for an immediate recall of all my speakers.

 

[Selah Audio]

Sorry--I replied to the wrong post. It was meant for your #86. Dayton resistors inductive? . I'll arrange for an immediate recall of all my speakers.

I'm not sure who posted it but you should test them. No sense in paying more (versus a standard resistor) if they're inductive. This is about the sandcast version - not the newer ones.

 

[ta240]

.... and remember there's numerous other folks in this crazy audio business selling products with far less value.....

The only problem is they are gateway drugs and an invitation down the road away from critical thinking. "Hey, audiophile, want to try some fancy connectors? The first ones aren't too expensive..."

I've seen it already in this thread "....doesn’t sound optimal to me.".
Feelings, nothing more than feelings....

 

[silentt29]

I've been considering upgrading my RP-600Ms recently, but probably once the warranty expires. I originally bought these Klipsch speakers because of all the high acclaim from YouTube and Stereophile reviews, given by the best snake oil salesman of course, which is something I intend to steer clear of for most future audio purchases. I'm still debating whether I should buy the $250 JBL Stage A130s before the $209 RP-600M upgrade (which would be after a few years for warranty's sake, just in case).

 

[wheresmymoney]

I just finished watching some of the GR videos; well, scrolling through them to actual content. One thing that really stood out to me was the frequency with which he touched his neck and/or face while talking. For the uninitiated, that can be a tell for dishonesty. Or, perhaps he could have been itchy. But, it definitely caught my attention.

 

[Spkrdctr]

Danny is not a big offender in the snake oil business at all. Lets see, he redesigns crossovers and when doing so uses much more expensive parts. He also adds in decent wire, No Rez and tube connectors. He gives you before and after tests showing the flattening of the response so you can make a judgement on buying the kit based on its results. The kits sell for about $200 to $400 for a pair of speakers. If you want he will also sell you speaker wire. He didn't use to sell wire but due to many requests, he started. His customers were requesting wire from him and he supplied it.

He does the initial testing on speakers you send in for free. He is running a business and needs to make a profit. He pretty much says here is what I recommend at this price, if you want it buy it. It is all very, very cheap in the world of audio. No real money spent. There are so many companies in audio, hundreds if not thousands? that are truly ripping people off every day. If people want to get their panties in a knot, I would say to go after the big players. Danny is just offering inexpensive tweaks, and yes they are tweaks to existing speakers.

One last point that fries my knickers is people who want Danny to give out free crossover designs that he took time and effort to design. That is idiotic and goes against all business principles on our planet. It really roasts my nuts as I had a business and idiots tried the same tactic after I put in thousands of hours on a product. They thought I should give away my product manufacturing information for free. So, while I do not support Danny in that I will most likely never get a speaker upgrade, he is doing a decent job of offering a service to people who want what he is selling and he provides tests to let the customer know, this is what you are getting. Of course, I'm excluding wires, interconnects and such. I see nothing wrong with that.

I can't believe I'm sticking up for Danny and I don't believe in tube connectors, expensive air core inductors or high dollar caps. You guys have gotten to me! But, that's a good thing.

 

[beagleman]

Danny is not a big offender in the snake oil business at all. Lets see, he redesigns crossovers and when doing so uses much more expensive parts. He also adds in decent wire, No Rez and tube connectors. He gives you before and after tests showing the flattening of the response so you can make a judgement on buying the kit based on its results. The kits sell for about $200 to $400 for a pair of speakers. If you want he will also sell you speaker wire. He didn't use to sell wire but due to many requests, he started. His customers were requesting wire from him and he supplied it.

He does the initial testing on speakers you send in for free. He is running a business and needs to make a profit. He pretty much says here is what I recommend at this price, if you want it buy it. It is all very, very cheap in the world of audio. No real money spent. There are so many companies in audio, hundreds if not thousands? that are truly ripping people off every day. If people want to get their panties in a knot, I would say to go after the big players. Danny is just offering inexpensive tweaks, and yes they are tweaks to existing speakers.

One last point that fries my knickers is people who want Danny to give out free crossover designs that he took time and effort to design. That is idiotic and goes against all business principles on our planet. It really roasts my nuts as I had a business and idiots tried the same tactic after I put in thousands of hours on a product. They thought I should give away my product manufacturing information for free. So, while I do not support Danny in that I will most likely never get a speaker upgrade, he is doing a decent job of offering a service to people who want what he is selling and he provides tests to let the customer know, this is what you are getting. Of course, I'm excluding wires, interconnects and such. I see nothing wrong with that.

I can't believe I'm sticking up for Danny and I don't believe in tube connectors, expensive air core inductors or high dollar caps. You guys have gotten to me! But, that's a good thing.

I agree with a LOT of what you say, but at the same time, I think there is a point, where one is in this for fun and a hobby and then a point when one is in solely to make money off it.

Many great DIY speakers have been designed by guys that freely put them online just to help fellow hobbyists and for the fun of talking about the design, and how they came to the final speaker and so on.

Not sure when it stops being a fun hobby and then becomes JUST a business.

 

[amirm]

Danny is not a big offender in the snake oil business at all.

That is true. But by giving bad education on benefits of nonsense in audio he gives license to people to waste money elsewhere. This is a terrible thing and needs to be addressed as it goes way beyond his borders.

 

[beagleman]

The only problem is they are gateway drugs and an invitation down the road away from critical thinking. "Hey, audiophile, want to try some fancy connectors? The first ones aren't too expensive..."

I've seen it already in this thread "....doesn’t sound optimal to me.".
Feelings, nothing more than feelings....

The couple friends in real life that were into audio, seemed like they lost all sense of reality with certain products.

They were technically smart guys, and even had Great paying jobs, but they seemed so easily convinced of silly stuff.
It was almost as if it was a moderate type of addiction. They seemed to just "Desire" this stuff, even though I think they realized it could not do what it claimed. It was semi religious/addictive type of behavour.

 

[77SunsetStrip]

That is true. But by giving bad education on benefits of nonsense in audio he gives license to people to waste money elsewhere. This is a terrible thing and needs to be addressed as it goes way beyond his borders.

Amir, that is quite the leap. C'mon Man, you are better than that kind of exaggeration and convoluted logic. Just as illogical as saying because you have a company selling X,Y,Z you have no right to review X,Y,Z. Trashing another in order to elevate yourself is not a winning formula. Nor is the claim that your noble intent to educate the ignorant is superior. Do you really want to start a debate about who is within their "borders"?

Measure to your hearts content. Present the data to stand on it's own merit. Some will benefit, some will not. After all, this is just a hobby about personal enjoyment. If that enjoyment means discussing the minutia of data, go for it. If enjoyment means spending big bucks, good for you. Get over somebody not in lock step with you. Difference is the spice of life.

 

[beagleman]

One last point that fries my knickers is people who want Danny to give out free crossover designs that he took time and effort to design.

I am one of those that would love to see his crossover changes, but NOT to emulate them, but more out of pure curiosity as to what changes he made and what results they gave.

Almost all other DIY guys that mod crossovers, do this, and explain what they changed and WHY, and how it impacted the response and go into much more detail about how it changes other aspects such as impedance and phase angles, and distortion etc.

That lends a lot more credibility to the changes and gives concrete evidence as to how and why their design is better.

Great example of what I mentioned from one of our members on this forum!

https://sites.google.com/view/sehlin-sound-solutions/hivi-diy-3-1-modifications