Speaker Upgrades - GR Research

[Midwest Blade]

Is anyone following the speaker upgrades by Dan from GR Research. I just followed his 3 part upgrade on the Klipsch RPM-600 on YouTube and what was striking was the build quality of the original. Cabinet, drivers, crossovers and connectors, all were more or less used to keep cost to a minimum in order for Klipsch to hit a price point. Now the 600's have been highly touted all over the internet, what stikes me is how mediocre the speakers were constructed. He did not post any before or after measurments so any audible improvements are undetermined but the main point I take away is the supposed quality of product

Dabling with the thought of upgrading my condo system bookshelf speakers, I really wonder what is on the inside of some of the products up for consideration. Secondly, is this just another indication that it really is a "buyer beware" category.

 

[Deleted member 2944]

If buying speakers like the RPM-600 and then feeling the need to "upgrade" them, the question quickly becomes why did you buy the speakers in the first place? All of the speakers in that part of the market are built to a low price point and have characteristics that would not be called "audiophile quality."

Danny Richie is mainly about selling product in his business model, and since that speaker has sold quite a few copies and is fairly well known in the audio press, it was a logical platform to apply his "quality" parts to.

Dave.

 

[Koeitje]

If you want high quality materials build them yourselves. I had gotten some PMC Twenty.22's to test against my ancient DIY Scan Speak Reference Monitors. The PMC's together weigh the same as one of my DIY speakers. They both speakers sound fine, but the PMC's aren't worth the money if you look at the construction.

 

[Midwest Blade]

If buying speakers like the RPM-600 and then feeling the need to "upgrade" them, the question quickly becomes why did you buy the speakers in the first place? All of the speakers in that part of the market are built to a low price point and have characteristics that would not be called "audiophile quality."

Danny Richie is mainly about selling product in his business model, and since that speaker has sold quite a few copies and is fairly well known in the audio press, it was a logical platform to apply his "quality" parts to.

Dave.

The question becomes at what point, price or otherwise, are we assured that what we are getting is a quality built product. I fully agree that Dan is somewhat jumping on the chain of acclaim that Klipsch is enjoying with that model at the moment. Most of this has come from the usual mob of on line reviewers.

 

[CDMC]

I think what Danny is doing is reasonable and he is transparent about it. He provides measurements and discusses that the sound improvements are 1) better frequency response, 2) better phase response between the drivers, and 3) better quality crossover components. I know that he is a stickler for good off axis response, not only horizontally, but believes that vertical is also very important (if not more important).

He also discusses why Klipsch doesn't do this from the factory. According to his estimate, Klipsch has to build the speaker for about $120 to be able to sell for a retail price of $600. He estimates that if Klipsch were to build and sell the speaker with the mods he sells, they would have to charge more than twice their current $600 price.

To me at least, this is far from a snake oil salesman. He is selling a upgrade that makes a measurable and perceivable difference at a reasonable cost (you can cost the parts for yourself if you want to go round them up and buy them directly), he isn't claiming anything magical, and he is allowing people and opportunity to dabble in DIY. I think it is a great thing.

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=166535.0

 

[Midwest Blade]

Thanks for the link, the specs definitely confirms the improvement.

I am not a diy guy but I really like the message Dan is sending out while finding many of his YouTube’s a bit dry. As we all see, finding good sources of information in audio is still possible. GR is in the good books.

 

[Daverz]

I like that he shows the crossover improvements with measurements. But I guess we'll have to take his word on it that the tube connectors are an improvement.

 

[CDMC]

The question becomes at what point, price or otherwise, are we assured that what we are getting is a quality built product. I fully agree that Dan is somewhat jumping on the chain of acclaim that Klipsch is enjoying with that model at the moment. Most of this has come from the usual mob of on line reviewers.

I don't think you can pick a pricepoint that you get a quality built product, as that definition varies by user. Does quality include cabinet materials? What level of crossover components are quality? What about drivers? I would argue that until you get into the $10,000+ speakers, all manufacturers are making calculated decisions of where to apply funds in a given speaker to meet their price point. Some manufactures view the enclosure as the most important aspect, some the crossover, some the drivers, some a balancing act of all three.

I would say if you are looking at material cost versus price, Ascend Acoustics hits very high on the scale of quality versus price. The Sierra 1 sells for $678 a pair, uses vertically laminate bamboo enclosures, seas drivers, and high quality crossover components.

 

[CDMC]

I like that he shows the crossover improvements with measurements. But I guess we'll have to take his word on it that the tube connectors are an improvement.

I like the idea of the tube connectors, as they seem to provide a more consistent connection. Practically speaking, I prefer banana style plugs like the tube connectors to spades, much easier to work with. That said, I am not ready to drop the $59 for the speaker and cable set (two required per speaker pair) and replace my existing connectors. I would also like to see a comparison where standard connectors with fresh clean connections are compared to the tube connectors, as there could be change in sound resulting from an oxidized connection.

 

[Ron Texas]

You Tube drives me nuts. It's low effort for the presenter and can be monitized easily, but it takes 20 times more time than reading. If anyone wants to summarize his mods, please do.

 

[jtwrace]

If anyone wants to summarize his mods, please do.

Replace with these parts and be shocked by the difference

 

[Ron Texas]

Replace with these parts and be shocked by the difference

In the crossover, I suppose.

 

[jtwrace]

In the crossover, I suppose.

Yes, total crossover replacement and tube connectors (binding posts) along with No Rez (his version of CLD)

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=166535.0

 

[Ron Texas]

Yes, total crossover replacement and tube connectors (binding posts) along with No Rez (his version of CLD)

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=166535.0

What's CLD?

 

[jtwrace]

What's CLD?

Constrained Layer Damping

 

[gene_stl]

I have started to watch several of his videos. He talks SO slow and takes so much time to get to the point that I haven't really made it all the way through many (maybe even any) of them. He does seem to know something about speaker design and build. I haven't noticed him saying or claiming anything that I violently disagree with. He needs to quit with the do it yourself video production and get someone else to edit him. I do have a pretty long attention span. But you don't have to repeat the basics every time.

The reason I was even interested was because at Axpona I heard a pair of speakers at a room sponsored by Danville Signal Processing who were sharing the room with a guy selling a speaker kit that used Danville's crossover and a GR open dipole sub wooofer. It sounded very good. I asked for some classical music and heard an orchestra. then suddenly there was a very nicely reproduced organ pipe, a big one. It was some kind of organ concerto with orchestra. The organ note sort of sneaked in very well. I had never heard of them prior to that. Oh yes the sub woofer also was some kind of servo controlled set up.

 

[amirm]

I have started to watch several of his videos. He talks SO slow and takes so much time to get to the point that I haven't really made it all the way through many (maybe even any) of them.

I watched all of them but set speed to 1.5X in youtube. I had not heard of him before and enjoyed watching his videos. He is straightforward in his approach. Sad that he put his videos in New Record Day channel that is full of voodoo.

 

[TimW]

I am bothered by his claims that the quality of crossover components and the use of tube connectors make a major sound quality difference. The air core inductors certainly add less distortion than iron core ones. And high quality film capacitors have tighter tolerances and better specs then cheap electrolytics. But his disdain for sandcast resistors makes no sense to me. And as far as I can tell, he claims in one of the videos that most of the improvement in sound quality comes just from using better crossover components, not the measureable improvement in FR and phase. I'm glad that he seems to base his crossover design on measurements but he also seems to believe in a lot of voodoo snake oil crap. Just take a look at his system.

 

[Ron Texas]

Constrained Layer Damping

That is likely to make the most difference short of ripping out the crossover and bi-amping.

 

[tomtoo]

You Tube drives me nuts. It's low effort for the presenter and can be monitized easily, but it takes 20 times more time than reading. If anyone wants to summarize his mods, please do.

Change the crossover but heavy. So not same crossover with better parts. Realy a deep change. And better case damping.
I wonder what the Audiophiliac says now about the speaker ?