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Speaker smaller than Spendor S100,

Willem

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I did not see the subs, but if you have those you may not need anything larger than the M30 or equivalent. For best integration you should perhaps investigate MSO equalization and also a way to high pass the main speakers. There is a good instruction video on Youtube:
. It takes some work I am afraid.
 
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DavidEdwinAston

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I did not see the subs, but if you have those you may not need anything larger than the M30 or equivalent. For best integration you should perhaps investigate MSO equalization and also a way to high pass the main speakers. There is a good instruction video on Youtube. It takes some work I am afraid.
Thank you for your further comments!
 
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DavidEdwinAston

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Certainly, the 30 appeals on size, and cost.
 

DSJR

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Interesting comments on Spendor, and a potentially "cold", reference 1!
I think the Harbeth 30 would be cheaper than a 1/2. Spendor do continue to be well reviewed.
Is there not something off-putting about Alan Shaw of Harbeth?
I've known Alan since 1988, a year or so after he took on the brand and have had *plenty* of dealings, edited posts and all-but-banning over on the HUG before I got my stuff together and calmed down enough ;) He obviously has his brand first and foremost and that dictates how seriuously he takes his largely non-we customer base and the simplistic 'education' which is quietly being slipped into HUG topics, but the current XD models I've seen tested measure very well in conventional terms apart from possibly dispersion which is still predictable (and he LISTENS for hours and hours before signing the designs off and as my [Non-ATC] flat earth indoctrination of the 80's and 90's suggested, a dB or so on tweeter level may not show much in measurement, but it can be heard and sometimes not for the better!). Prices won't be low, but he now claims to have a Klippel (Klippel to what level I'm not sure), he has at least two or three other graduate at least and properly qualified engineers in the design team and he claims they're well advanced on active prototypes with DSP as well as further research on the cone material that does work very well if natural sounding speech and acoustic instruments are important. The main thing is, knowing the man, is that any new model will have been VERY thoroughly gone over before being released to market. Harbeth is definitely not just a one-man-band any more and is rather more a family concern with good assets and not such a small UK business now. I appreciate the above may not be of interest to the ASR Klippel-Chasers, but it's a worthy brand and each new generation has been a genuine evolution over past models (why with sorted hearing I now hear how basically good my 2007 issue 5's are).

Just to say the radial coned drivers don't go off or harden up as many Spendor drivers do (why do you need a sub in your setup - have your bass drivers 'gorn orf' as the S100 has a rich-weighty balance from memory?) Don't ignore the current 7-XD as its a way better speaker in tonal balance than its ES3 predecessor (all the former 'grand-ripeness of tone' has gone) yet still has a little bit of bass weight and now sounds genuinely like a smaller 5+-XD. The old ferro-fluid Scan tweeters in the S100's can lose output a little as well I believe as the fluid dries out so making for a less lively sound.

Apologies all - I'm no shill for Harbeth, (or ATC for that matter) but I do know these brands better than perhaps many viewers on here, especially Harbeth as I get to hear the new models regularly. You have S100's which I also know a bit first hand, so merely trying to suggest modern replacements which will equal or surpass the better bits of the S100 but in a smaller package. I could never ever spout forth about Genelec and Neumann as I simply don't know them and the KEF guess is based on experiences with passive speakers with a definite flat to rising lower kHz region compared to models with more 'subtle' lower-hf balances.
 
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DavidEdwinAston

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I've known Alan since 1988, a year or so after he took on the brand and have had *plenty* of dealings, edited posts and all-but-banning over on the HUG before I got my stuff together and calmed down enough ;) He obviously has his brand first and foremost and that dictates how seriuously he takes his largely non-we customer base and the simplistic 'education' which is quietly being slipped into HUG topics, but the current XD models I've seen tested measure very well in conventional terms apart from possibly dispersion which is still predictable (and he LISTENS for hours and hours before signing the designs off and as my [Non-ATC] flat earth indoctrination of the 80's and 90's suggested, a dB or so on tweeter level may not show much in measurement, but it can be heard and sometimes not for the better!). Prices won't be low, but he now claims to have a Klippel (Klippel to what level I'm not sure), he has at least two or three other graduate at least and properly qualified engineers in the design team and he claims they're well advanced on active prototypes with DSP as well as further research on the cone material that does work very well if natural sounding speech and acoustic instruments are important. The main thing is, knowing the man, is that any new model will have been VERY thoroughly gone over before being released to market. Harbeth is definitely not just a one-man-band any more and is rather more a family concern with good assets and not such a small UK business now. I appreciate the above may not be of interest to the ASR Klippel-Chasers, but it's a worthy brand and each new generation has been a genuine evolution over past models (why with sorted hearing I now hear how basically good my 2007 issue 5's are).

Just to say the radial coned drivers don't go off or harden up as many Spendor drivers do (why do you need a sub in your setup - have your bass drivers 'gorn orf' as the S100 has a rich-weighty balance from memory?) Don't ignore the current 7-XD as its a way better speaker in tonal balance than its ES3 predecessor (all the former 'grand-ripeness of tone' has gone) yet still has a little bit of bass weight and now sounds genuinely like a smaller 5+-XD. The old ferro-fluid Scan tweeters in the S100's can lose output a little as well I believe as the fluid dries out so making for a less lively sound.

Apologies all - I'm no shill for Harbeth, (or ATC for that matter) but I do know these brands better than perhaps many viewers on here, especially Harbeth as I get to hear the new models regularly. You have S100's which I also know a bit first hand, so merely trying to suggest modern replacements which will equal or surpass the better bits of the S100 but in a smaller package. I could never ever spout forth about Genelec and Neumann as I simply don't know them and the KEF guess is based on experiences with passive speakers with a definite flat to rising lower kHz region compared to models with more 'subtle' lower-hf balances.
Terrific post, thank you
 
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DavidEdwinAston

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AAAACK!!!!

Sorry, people! I was thinking of Billy Woodman of ATC, who died on 21 July!

That's what happens when you get old. You get mixed up with who died and who's still alive. :confused: Jim
You're alive, I'm alive. At this transitory moment surely that is enough Jim!
 

Willem

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I have another question, now that we are at it: what subwoofers do you have and how did you integrate them? Speaker level or line level, high passed or not, dsp equalized and if so how? Did you measure in-room response?
 
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DavidEdwinAston

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Right Willem
REL S2
High level input is plugged into on rear.
I believe the speaker and sub cables were "mated", out of the mono blocks.
Two guys brought the subs over from Unilet New Malden, the actual dealers. One did the physical connecting, the other spent ages listening while fiddling with his smartphone. Presumably some sort of equalisation?
To this day, I only use the rear volume knob, at 13 and touch nothing else.
I haven't measured in room response.
 

YSC

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View attachment 235452

About 15*24. I normally listen with the other recliner pulled a foot or more towards the camera. Any floor stander would have to impede the telly view even more.
before talking about speaker, I am not sure it's good to your life expectancy to post with your loved one in her home dress;)

I was leaning to some floor standers to recommend at first, but then your space isn't that big and with subs setup, if you're into the vintage looks

Wharfedale Linton Heritage looks great in Erin's review with a vintage look, personally at my late 30s I would prefer the KEF's design though, and being listening in ~1.5m-2m distance I would bet the coaxial driver will have better summed up sound than the 3 ways
 
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DavidEdwinAston

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I've known Alan since 1988, a year or so after he took on the brand and have had *plenty* of dealings, edited posts and all-but-banning over on the HUG before I got my stuff together and calmed down enough ;) He obviously has his brand first and foremost and that dictates how seriuously he takes his largely non-we customer base and the simplistic 'education' which is quietly being slipped into HUG topics, but the current XD models I've seen tested measure very well in conventional terms apart from possibly dispersion which is still predictable (and he LISTENS for hours and hours before signing the designs off and as my [Non-ATC] flat earth indoctrination of the 80's and 90's suggested, a dB or so on tweeter level may not show much in measurement, but it can be heard and sometimes not for the better!). Prices won't be low, but he now claims to have a Klippel (Klippel to what level I'm not sure), he has at least two or three other graduate at least and properly qualified engineers in the design team and he claims they're well advanced on active prototypes with DSP as well as further research on the cone material that does work very well if natural sounding speech and acoustic instruments are important. The main thing is, knowing the man, is that any new model will have been VERY thoroughly gone over before being released to market. Harbeth is definitely not just a one-man-band any more and is rather more a family concern with good assets and not such a small UK business now. I appreciate the above may not be of interest to the ASR Klippel-Chasers, but it's a worthy brand and each new generation has been a genuine evolution over past models (why with sorted hearing I now hear how basically good my 2007 issue 5's are).

Just to say the radial coned drivers don't go off or harden up as many Spendor drivers do (why do you need a sub in your setup - have your bass drivers 'gorn orf' as the S100 has a rich-weighty balance from memory?) Don't ignore the current 7-XD as its a way better speaker in tonal balance than its ES3 predecessor (all the former 'grand-ripeness of tone' has gone) yet still has a little bit of bass weight and now sounds genuinely like a smaller 5+-XD. The old ferro-fluid Scan tweeters in the S100's can lose output a little as well I believe as the fluid dries out so making for a less lively sound.

Apologies all - I'm no shill for Harbeth, (or ATC for that matter) but I do know these brands better than perhaps many viewers on here, especially Harbeth as I get to hear the new models regularly. You have S100's which I also know a bit first hand, so merely trying to suggest modern replacements which will equal or surpass the better bits of the S100 but in a smaller package. I could never ever spout forth about Genelec and Neumann as I simply don't know them and the KEF guess is based on experiences with passive speakers with a definite flat to rising lower kHz region compared to models with more 'subtle' lower-hf balances.
Good point about the subs. Must have a listen without them. However, it is true that if I select specific "sub" music on Qobuz, the sound and feeling is extremely evident with them switched on!
 
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DavidEdwinAston

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before talking about speaker, I am not sure it's good to your life expectancy to post with your loved one in her home dress;)

I was leaning to some floor standers to recommend at first, but then your space isn't that big and with subs setup, if you're into the vintage looks

Wharfedale Linton Heritage looks great in Erin's review with a vintage look, personally at my late 30s I would prefer the KEF's design though, and being listening in ~1.5m-2m distance I would bet the coaxial driver will have better summed up sound than the 3 ways
Thank you YSC! My beloved doesn't know of her starring role on ASR, and I ain't letting on! :cool:
Must look at Linton dimensions. Are you referring to the Reference 1 and/or R3?
I could really do something stupid like purchasing "blind", sweetchaos's top two passive standmount speakers. One of them I mean. Ascend Sierra or the March Audio from Oz .
Thanks for your suggestions, anyway.
 

Willem

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I am a great fan of subwoofers, and all the more so when you are downsizing. I would prefer a low/line level connection and I would certainly try to do some dsp room eq, preferably with MSO. If you do not feel up to that, you may investigate the DSpeaker Antimode 8033. It is fully automatic and child's play, but not as sophisticated as MSO.
 

Willem

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And if you like your current speakers but would like a smaller, more refined modern version in the same tradition, I suggest to go and listen to the Harbeth M30XD. For me, these modern Harbeth speakers are just about the closest to the Quad electrostats that I own and that you asked about in another thread. That is why I have their small P3ESR as my desktop speakers. Of course, I have to admit that there are obviously more speakers that I did not hear than ones that I did hear.
 

YSC

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Thank you YSC! My beloved doesn't know of her starring role on ASR, and I ain't letting on! :cool:
Must look at Linton dimensions. Are you referring to the Reference 1 and/or R3?
I could really do something stupid like purchasing "blind", sweetchaos's top two passive standmount speakers. One of them I mean. Ascend Sierra or the March Audio from Oz .
Thanks for your suggestions, anyway.
Yea, I would love to have own a pair of reference 1 in my lifetime, the KEF coaxial look is so sexy for my taste, though my all time favourite are the blades. The R3 meta could be good enough for practical reason if you arn't really have a lot of disposible cash on hand, the March Audio and Ascend Sierra is great choice also, all these I would personally say they are of side grades where diminishing return kicks in hard.

For March Audio one I am a little bit reserved due to the reported and admitted leak from the banana plugs, the QC is a bit of worry for me personally, though it could be just communication bias for me. But main thing is due to disperson difference and extension difference, especially if you don't integrate the speakers with multiple measurements and EQ the tonality in room could vary quite a bit with the options. My wild guess is that all these should be technically superior to the S100, so I bet after initial run in (of your ears) it could be enjoyable and be a end game setup. if the price difference isn't great, I would lean on to get the one LOOKS best to your taste, quite often the look contributes to percieved sound
 
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DavidEdwinAston

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Thank you guys for your further food for thought. In fact, Ascend have very rapidly replied to my email.
And of course Recluse has posted some speaker links I must look at.
Easiest for me would be Kef. Unilet do stock them, and might in fact let me test them at home. They would also likely fiddle about with the subs for the best integration, cos, I'm sorry guys but I won't be able to do it myself. I do thank you for all of the no doubt good links, on how to do it.
Harbeth may be the most natural alternative to Spendor.
Short term, my beloved has not okayed anything, at any price, while she considers the S100's to be still working!
(Would I dare knitting needles through the drivers in the dark hours?) No, I would not. :rolleyes:
 

DSJR

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Trying another speaker with good bass extension would help show if the Spendors are still ok after forty odd years. You'd easily notice if the bass drivers had tightened up meaning the subs are a must (the early issue SP100 suffers so I gather but not sure about the previous S100) and again as regards the high fequencies if the ScanSpeak tweeeters have gone down a bit.

Can you get to Unilet for a general dem of their various modern speakers? It's twenty odd years since I visited there and so much has changed, so can't help you really.
 
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DavidEdwinAston

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http://www.spacoustics.co.uk/Home.html

sp_acoustics-sp25m_pair-kmr_audio-4610.jpg


https://wilmslowaudio.co.uk/

bb75208ef01146f226659ed5edec3053.jpg


https://robsonacoustics.co.uk/

Ref-1-main-.jpg


https://www.wharfedale.co.uk/linton-heritage/

I have just clicked through your links Recluse. Plenty of food for thought, and homegrown potential. The Lintons another safe bet. I have been considering the Elysian 2's. Thank you for your efforts
 
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DavidEdwinAston

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Trying another speaker with good bass extension would help show if the Spendors are still ok after forty odd years. You'd easily notice if the bass drivers had tightened up meaning the subs are a must (the early issue SP100 suffers so I gather but not sure about the previous S100) and again as regards the high fequencies if the ScanSpeak tweeeters have gone down a bit.

Can you get to Unilet for a general dem of their various modern speakers? It's twenty odd years since I visited there and so much has changed, so can't help you really.
I can get to Unilet, about twelve miles from our Shepperton home. Peter Merrick actually played me these demo S100's after I had intended to replace BC 1's with the all the rage new small speaker of the day, the AE1, which I did not like. Although Merrick is now gone, Vernon, the current manager did know him. I have always hoped that Unilet would replace the speakers when necessary, with a good deal, for old times sake! I don't think they stock Spendor now, or Harbeth.
 

DSJR

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I think I remember Vernon, but it's so very long ago. AE1's were very odd, sounding awful in one setup and quite good in another I recall. The BC1's if working right in a smaller room at not high levels have a delightful midrange but the bass can let then down. They're appreciating collectors items now anyway.

Good luck :)
 
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DavidEdwinAston

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I think my son has the BC1,s now, but due to his home requirements is using a Sonos 1 or some such.
This morning, a bit of research. System on but Subs not turned up.
On carpet in front of each speaker. A Qobuz bass playlist. Dire warnings of possible speaker damage prior to each tone! 20 hertz some definite "action". 25 and 30, confirming a working speaker woofer I would have thought.
I have messaged Spendor about a possible service and will see what they say. No movement on my beloved's part with regard to any new speaker, of any kind! I suppose I should be grateful she let me invest in the Moondrop Chu's recently! :)
 
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