Speaker recommendation in view of brand's cost cutting

[Roy_L]

1) There is no "bare minimum". Something either works or it doesn't. Electronics and electricity don't care about a person's "book."



You are correct; it has no relevance to the sound, and that's the manufacturer's point.

What you're doing is applying standards that have absolutely no relevance to the matter at hand. That sort of mis-application is why snake oil continues to thrive.

You are enabling your own worst enemy.

I think the point I'm trying to make doesn't come through.
This is not a philosophical question, but a very concrete one. Being the one paying, it is my "book" that counts.

Does the car door's "thump" when closing it has anything to do with the car's performance? Or the engine plastic cover? I don't generally look at the engine when I drive, and I'm not the one usually opening the hood for services. However, these are things I may consider in my purchase decision.

I do not need to be explained that the engine cover, door sound or starter cable shrinks don't change the car's performance. I know that. Despite that, and despite it's wrong, enables snake oil to thrive and doing myself harm, it is what I'm asking for for my own selfish reasons.
Now, can someone please just address what I was asking?

 

[Roy_L]

P.S.- from keep digging, it seems more and more that a good choice covering my concerns may eventually be the BMR Monitor. However, there must be more than one option...

 

[Rednaxela]

Out of interest, is your quest limited to passive speakers?

 

[TrevC]

Oh.
Speaking of R200s/Polk Reserve Series and XO upgrades...

R200 crossover upgrade

I whined a bit in https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/195727/decimal-points-or-i-just-whoopsed#latest about my inability to read.

forum.polkaudio.com

before:

after (or perhaps during):

You swapped out perfectly good film caps and left the electrolytics?

 

[Feyire]

https://buchardtaudio.com/products/s400-mkii

 

[mhardy6647]

Doesn’t changing things like inductor style and capacitors alter the overall resistance of the circuit and thus the functioning of the crossover?

Capacitors won't have much impact in that sense. The DCR of inductors is important, yes.

 

[mhardy6647]

You swapped out perfectly good film caps and left the electrolytics?

1) not me.
2) I think that photo was in-progress (I went back and edited the caption last night).

 

[Roy_L]

Out of interest, is your quest limited to passive speakers?

Yeh, pretty much.
Some day I'll probably sell my Pass Labs amp and just buy a pair of Dutch & Dutch 8c or something like that. I know there are plenty of great active speakers, but for the time being I'll remain with the old school amp+passive speakers.

 

[Mart68]

P.S.- from keep digging, it seems more and more that a good choice covering my concerns may eventually be the BMR Monitor. However, there must be more than one option...

What about Focal?

 

[Roy_L]

What about Focal?

I was never impressed by any speaker they make. Years ago, I've owned 816V and later 906 aria. They were passable but nothing special, and I especially didn't like the build quality. About a year ago, an opportunity came by to buy the Kanta No.2 from a store display at half the price. I went there fully intending to get them, and was just surprised at how disappointing they were.
Sound quality aside (which was, again, passable), they felt hollow and cheap. Pretty to look at until you come close enough.
So, I'm pretty much done with Focal.

 

[restorer-john]

Is it too much to ask for a pair of 3,000$ bookshelf speakers to be really built of actual high quality parts and measure great?

No, it certainly is not.

US$3k for bookshelf speakers is a scam whatever way you look at it. There is no way on earth you can put US$3k worth of value in a pair of small two way bookshelf speakers- no matter what is going on with the USD and inflation. It's just a joke and an utter con.

 

[Mart68]

I was never impressed by any speaker they make. Years ago, I've owned 816V and later 906 aria. They were passable but nothing special, and I especially didn't like the build quality. About a year ago, an opportunity came by to buy the Kanta No.2 from a store display at half the price. I went there fully intending to get them, and was just surprised at how disappointing they were.
Sound quality aside (which was, again, passable), they felt hollow and cheap. Pretty to look at until you come close enough.
So, I'm pretty much done with Focal.

Fair enough.

I'd guess a three-way Focal is outside the budget anyway, if bought brand new in the USA. Their three ways are a big step up in SQ IMO.

 

[Chaconne]

Roy_L, I think the problem in recommending speakers that meet your criteria (good-sounding speakers made with quality parts) is that you have to take the speakers apart to determine the parts quality. And the only person doing that on any scale seems to be Danny Richie, whose objectivity is subject to question. So for most of us, it's hard to know which speakers are made with high-quality parts and which are not. I don't mean to be flippant or dismissive, but maybe your best bet is to buy something Danny has tested and replace the cheap parts with his higher-quality, more expensive parts. Of course, since you're not big on DIY, you'd have to pay someone to do the upgrade, which may be impractical. Not ideal, but it's all I can come up with!

 

[Spkrdctr]

After the OPs latest posts. I would recommend getting a pair of speakers that you like and just doing the Danny (GR Research) upgrade kit but without the tube connectors. That is the only real answer I see.

I don't even know what crossover is in the BMR speakers which are supposed to be very, very nice speakers. Either way if you bought BMR you would have fantastic speakers that would not need a crossover upgrade as whatever is in there from the factory is sufficient for extremely good performance. Audioholics have tested the BMR's and they loved them.

 

[Ageve]

I think the problem in recommending speakers that meet your criteria (good-sounding speakers made with quality parts) is that you have to take the speakers apart to determine the parts quality. And the only person doing that on any scale seems to be Danny Richie

Photos of crossovers have been shared on forums for many years. Don't give him credit for that. Several manufacturers release pictures as well, even if the parts are not "audiophile grade". The only reason why Danny is on Youtube, is to sell his "upgrades".

You would think that the "good-sounding" part of your argument would be enough, but unfortunately the sound is secondary to many audiophiles.

 

[Holmz]

… Is it too much to ask for a pair of 3,000$ bookshelf speakers to be really built of actual high quality parts and measure great?

I am trying to get a set of these.
They are being shown in Munich, so maybe we will hear more next week.

A bit over the 3k$ budget, but you can see the quality parts in the Purifi and Satori drivers.

 

[Chaconne]

Photos of crossovers have been shared on forums for many years. Don't give him credit for that. Several manufacturers release pictures as well, even if the parts are not "audiophile grade". The only reason why Danny is on Youtube, is to sell his "upgrades".

You would think that the "good-sounding" part of your argument would be enough, but unfortunately the sound is secondary to many audiophiles.

Of course, you're right. But I wonder how many of us can judge the quality of parts just by looking. I know I can't.

 

[DanielT]

Tip, this thread:

Capacitor upgrade in crossover - Is it audible?

As the topics "capacitor upgrade" and therefore "capacitor sound" is very controversial, the test method and its results are explained in detail. This cannot be dealt with in one minute. Sorry for this and I hope your attention span is still sufficient to read through a long text - whereby the...

audiosciencereview.com

ctrl:
"So the expectations are extremely high, let's see how spectacular the actual measurements turn out in the battle of the up to 23 years old capacitors against the high-end capacitor......

What the f... are you trying to do, f... us over!
That's just the same measurement with three different colors displayed - isn't it?



...Not all crossover upgrades are complete nonsense - just most of them ."

 

[Ageve]

Of course, you're right. But I wonder how many of us can judge the quality of parts just by looking. I know I can't.

Well that's the thing. You can't judge the quality of the parts by listening to Danny either. He's a snake oil salesman.

Here's an example of a speaker with cheap crossover components (BMR Philharmonitor Bookshelf Speaker):

Philharmonic Audio BMR Philharmonitor Bookshelf Speaker Review

Philharmonic Audio's BMR Philharmonitors use a 3-way design with a very special driver outlay that has audio enthusiasts excited about the potential performance advantages that it could offer Read on.

www.audioholics.com

Danny would take one look at the crossover, and call it "cheesy garbage parts".

 

[Spkrdctr]

That BMR review really shows how good they are. For the price, I don't know of any that are better.