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Speaker for mixing in 45m2 room

Pearljam5000

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I didn't hear the Genelec, only the KH120. Did you hear them in the same room next to each other and how do they differ?
Not in the same room
But Genelec has a distinct sound that is very unique
I would say extreme instrument separation and everything is very defined.
Most people would consider them bright but to me they're just detailed.
Their tonality is amazing.
KH120 have a lot of bass and can sound massive compared to their size but to me they were somewhat dark unfortunately I didn't play with the dip switches so I don't if that can be "cured".
They're both excellent but to me the small differences make them completely different, to other people that could be meaningless.
I would suggest going to a store for a demo
I heard a ton of monitors from different brands and knew which ones I liked and which I didn't.
 
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Used both KH120 and now I use 8330 (with sub) and both will smoke Adam T series.
I won't say that Genelec are bright either. KH120 are little darker than 8x30 but it's a matter of room mostly and buildups in mids could cloud your perception.
I recommed 8330 because of built in DSP and GLM - one the best solution I've tried.
Genelecs have more soundfield depth, Neumanns are more "flat" in that sense.
In 45m2 I would also consider something bigger like Eve Audio SC208 or Dynaudio LYD8 - both are very respectable solutions.
 

dasdoing

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problem with demoing in store is that one could sound better to you in store, while it sounds worse in your room and after eq.
I mean it's great when a monitor is flat out of the box. but in the end it doesn't matter much. distorsion and dispersion caracter will dictate the sound after EQ
 
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Lilith

Lilith

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I posted this already somewhere else here, but the review for the T5V is rhapsodic even in comparison to the KH80:


You can turn on english subtitles.
 

dasdoing

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I posted this already somewhere else here, but the review for the T5V is rhapsodic even in comparison to the KH80:


You can turn on english subtitles.

the guy works in an icredible room, with big Neumans, and couldn't believe what came out of the T5Vs. I said it before, they seam to be a myrical
 

Pearljam5000

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the guy works in an icredible room, with big Neumans, and couldn't believe what came out of the T5Vs. I said it before, they seam to be a myrical
I always take these reviews with a pinch of salt
I didn't like the A7X at all
 
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Lilith

Lilith

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Many people say the Genelecs 8030 need a sub, especially when producing electronic music. Another option would be the Focal 65 Evo as these go down to 40 Hz @ - 3 dB.
 
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Lilith

Lilith

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Did anyone hear the Kali LP6 next to the 8030 or to the Neumann KH120? Bass extension on the Kali is tempting.
 

test1223

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Many people say the Genelecs 8030 need a sub, especially when producing electronic music. Another option would be the Focal 65 Evo as these go down to 40 Hz @ - 3 dB.
You definitely need a sub with any 5" woofer monitor and room correction. Without both it is hard or even impossible to judge or mix any electronic music correctly.

With a listening distance above about 1.5m any 5" monitor is a very big compromise, since the directivity gets more and more wrong. You didn't get enough direct sound at the listening position.

5" with sub and room correction (which didn't have to cost anything but time and effort) at 1m listening distance is a good price performance set-up.
 
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Lilith

Lilith

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So that would speak for the Kalis LP6.
 

test1223

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So that would speak for the Kalis LP6.
A 6" is very close to an 5" the bass is only a bit deeper same for the listening distance. You also need a subwoofer here.

A two way 8" can come close to a full range loudspeaker. But especially with electronic music even such a 8" profits a lot from a decent subwoofer.

If the budget is tight you have do make a compromise. A 5" two way with sub is the best price performance spot. Like the Adam AV5 or many other 5" monitors which are (with equalisation) very good speakers for it's price. In many store you can listen to a lot of potential good cheap 5" speaker. I would recommend to do that.

Here you can have a look at preference score especially with sub (and with eq) is interesting.
But the score didn't tells the whole story and listening can help a lot. There are qualities which aren't included in this score e.g. the image a good coaxial speakers can provide. Therefore listening to a few speakers is very helpful.
 

audio2920

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It strikes me that weight may be more limiting than budget here, in terms of what you can achieve bass-wise for subless operation.

JBL 705p is a starting to show it's age maybe, but it's still got it's merits.

Dynaudio LYD isn't a bad shout IMHO, but the weight may be a problem with the bigger models.

Kali IN5 maybe? Obviously well under budget.
 
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Lilith

Lilith

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A 6" is very close to an 5" the bass is only a bit deeper same for the listening distance. You also need a subwoofer here.

A two way 8" can come close to a full range loudspeaker. But especially with electronic music even such a 8" profits a lot from a decent subwoofer.

If the budget is tight you have do make a compromise. A 5" two way with sub is the best price performance spot. Like the Adam AV5 or many other 5" monitors which are (with equalisation) very good speakers for it's price. In many store you can listen to a lot of potential good cheap 5" speaker. I would recommend to do that.

Here you can have a look at preference score especially with sub (and with eq) is interesting.
But the score didn't tells the whole story and listening can help a lot. There are qualities which aren't included in this score e.g. the image a good coaxial speakers can provide. Therefore listening to a few speakers is very helpful.
Thanks, I'm looking since two years now almost and I have been many times in the store(s). Problem is that the speaker stand on different positions and sometimes far too high, so it's completely impossible to make judgements. For instance I didn't like the Kali LP6 at all, cause they sounded muffled. But I think meanwhile the problem was that they were standing far too high (just under the ceiling). I also didn't like the Neumann KH120 as there was some harshness in the tweeter that I didn't like. To be honest the best sounding monitor I heard was the Yahama HS8 and if it was not that heavy and big I would immediately buy it. Currently I'm using Presonus Eris 5 and I think my mixes aren't bad.

https://soundcloud.com/lilith_93%2Fcoldsky
Only thing I'm missing is bass until ~40-50 Hz. (I also have neighbours...) As said there's a strong room mode at 45Hz, so maybe 50 Hz would be fine, the rest is doing the room.
 
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Lilith

Lilith

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I think Adam t7v is a good compromise. Relatively light, enough bass, 5 year warranty, from Germany...
 

test1223

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Thanks, I'm looking since two years now almost and I have been many times in the store(s). Problem is that the speaker stand on different positions and sometimes far too high, so it's completely impossible to make judgements. For instance I didn't like the Kali LP6 at all, cause they sounded muffled. But I think meanwhile the problem was that they were standing far too high (just under the ceiling). I also didn't like the Neumann KH120 as there was some harshness in the tweeter that I didn't like. To be honest the best sounding monitor I heard was the Yahama HS8 and if it was not that heavy and big I would immediately buy it. Currently I'm using Presonus Eris 5 and I think my mixes aren't bad.

https://soundcloud.com/lilith_93%2Fcoldsky
Only thing I'm missing is bass until ~40-50 Hz. (I also have neighbours...) As said there's a strong room mode at 45Hz, so maybe 50 Hz would be fine, the rest is doing the room.
I like your music. You definitely need a subwoofer and room correction to deal with this kind of music. This would be the first thing I would buy.

The Yamaha HS 8 is an unique sounding speaker. You have less room reflections in the mids due to the more narrow directivity in the mids and a very wide and even tweeter directivity which gives you more room and air in this frequency band than almost any other speaker. Maybe one of the smaller Yamahas HS with eq would come closest to the HS8.

Genelec 8030 come closer to the HS8 than Neumann KH120 or Adam AV5 but all four are definitely different no matter how much eq you use.

Your Presonus most likely profits a lot using measurements and an eq. With an eq the tonal characteristic is presumably between Adam AV5 and Neumann KH 120.
 
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Lilith

Lilith

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I like your music. You definitely need a subwoofer and room correction to deal with this kind of music. This would be the first thing I would buy.

The Yamaha HS 8 is an unique sounding speaker. You have less room reflections in the mids due to the more narrow directivity in the mids and a very wide and even tweeter directivity which gives you more room and air in this frequency band than almost any other speaker. Maybe one of the smaller Yamahas HS with eq would come closest to the HS8.

Genelec 8030 come closer to the HS8 than Neumann KH120 or Adam AV5 but all four are definitely different no matter how much eq you use.

Your Presonus most likely profits a lot using measurements and an eq. With an eq the tonal characteristic is presumably between Adam AV5 and Neumann KH 120.
Room correction I currently use (http://drc-fir.sourceforge.net/doc/drc.html). Without it it's a complete mess. My room is also partially treated, but I think with a sub I run into problems as I would need much much more treatment. +I have have neighbours. If a sub only with the option to leave it off. Vertical directivity is a good point as my monitors stand behind a big (180X80 cm) table and I have some cancellation at 800 -1000 Hz. Wasn't aware that the directivity is better for the HS series compared to the other speaker. Is that true?

"Genelec 8030 come closer to the HS8"

You mean tonality wise, but not regarding bass extension?
 
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test1223

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Room correction I currently use (http://drc-fir.sourceforge.net/doc/drc.html). Without it it's a complete mess. My room is also partially treated, but I think with a sub I run into problems as I would need much much more treatment. Vertical directivity is a good point as my monitors stand behind a big (180X80 cm) table and I have some cancellation at 800 -1000 Hz. Wasn't aware that the directivity is better for the HS series compared to the other speaker. Is that true?

"Genelec 8030 come closer to the HS8"

You mean tonality wise, but not regarding bass extension?
If you already have a measurement microphone and room correction the integration of a subwoofer shouldn't be that difficult.

Placing the speaker relatively high can reduce some problems of the table bounce.

No the directivity of the HS 8 is not per se better. All mentioned speakers are different with pros and cons of all speakers.

The HS will put more energy in the higher frequencies into the room. This is good if the listening distance is short. The room acoustic and placement have also to be good (symmetrical in the room some kind of diffusion and damping...) otherwise it can also cause problems. In the mids and upper bass the HS8 puts less energy into the room which is generally a good thing which you can't achieve with smaller speakers. But with the HS8 it can be a problem since the directivity in higher frequencies changes and more energy is put into the room. But in some rooms you have a lot of damping only in the higher frequencies and this change is even beneficial. Or you want to achieve a more surrounding sound in exchange of a bit less exactness and not so accurate tonal balance.

The tonal balance of the HS8 is more on the bright side. While the Adam and Neumann are darker and the Genelec is something between HS8 and the other two.
 
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