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Speaker element power, interpret data. AES 2-1984 vs IEC standard 60268

DanielT

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Benefit from AES 2-1984 vs IEC standard 60268 plus information on Maximum Power Handling?

This is how AES 2-1984 is defined:

The existing standard AES 2-1984 defines the peak displacement Xmax in 4.3.2 Large-Signal Parameters:

"(2) Voice-coil peak displacement at which the" linearity "of the motor deviates by 10%. Linearity may be measured by percent distortion of the input current or by percent deviation of displacement versus input current. Manufacturer shall state method used. The measurement shall be made in free air at fS. "



Okay, but what does that say in practice? Let me take an example.


AES Power Handling (1): 150 W
2 Hours Test According to AES 2-1984 Rev. 2003


Okay so 150 W deviations of 10%. It seems to be a reasonable standard to use or what do you think?

But the same element has:

Maximum Power Handling (2): 300 W
Maximum power is defined as 3dB greater than nominal power


Well, what is the use of that information? Between 150-300 W for that Faital Pro element, what does it mean in the form of deviations in the form of linearity and distortion?

Now 150 W plus Sensitivity (1W / 1m): 96 dB is more than enough for me, but I'm still curious.:)

Aha, regarding that standard:

Comment from Klippel, 2003-02-24

The critical review of the numerical simulation on a fictitious loudspeaker and practical measurements on real loudspeakers (see AES preprint 5508) show that the method in AES2-1984 does not provide a clear and useful definition of Xmax. This is mainly caused by some ambiguities in the wording and more importantly by using assumptions, which are not valid in theory and practice. Clearly, the measurement of harmonic distortion is not sufficient for assessing all important aspects of the large signal performance. Nonlinearities inherent in transducers such as force factor Bl(x), inductance Le(x) and Doppler effect produce significant modulation distortion. The current IEC standard 60268 provides all of the methods required for assessing these kinds of distortion and for defining Xmax more clearly and reliably:


60268 Sound system equipment, and 60268-5 regarding speakers see attached pictures.

So AES 2-1984 does not make sense to start from, or?
 

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voodooless

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The measurement is only done at fs. Higher up in frequency you’ll probably have less distortion and critically also less excursion. So there, more power will be available anyway. Also note that the measurement is done free air. In a box, things tend to behave differently as well. Then there is the thermal limit at which point the thing starts disintegrating. And finally we have actually music vs test signal, which gives about 10 to 15 dB crest factor.

All in all it’s much more relevant to stay within Xmax in your box. If that is below max rated power, your probably good (and death).
 
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DanielT

DanielT

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Thanks voodooless for the explanation. Hm, the solution might then be "the usual suggested". That is, add with tailor-made dedicated and for the purpose well-performing subwoffer plus sub amp to relieve both, this example element 10FE200 plus the amp that drives those elements
(although this applies in general regardless of driver, amp, I can suspect). Crossover maybe around 70-90 Hz (depending on construction / design with 10FE200) so 10FE200 do not have to work so hard.:). .....But then you can just as easily choose the 8-inch variant 8FE200 if you go for a solution together with a subwoofer.

Plus a sensible design on the speaker box with matching tweeters, but that's another question. I will return to, that is, matching with a tweeter, a compression driver that I have. It does not have to be the Faital Pro element, it was mostly an example in this thread. :) . But right now I was most interested from a theoretical perspective, how to, in general, interpret data.
(although it seems to be an affordable element maybe it is possible to make some ok, not "High end", fun rock and roll speakers out..if it fits with my driver .....hm..I will return with a new thread).:)
 
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voodooless

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When in doubt, you can always save up for Beyma 10MC700nd. With 1400W program power, should be more than enough to satisfy a bit of run rock and roll :cool:
 
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DanielT

DanielT

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It then becomes a classic X vs many Y.:)

One BEYMA 10MC700ND 10 "in each box vs five (note 5) Faital Pro 10FE200 in each speaker box. What gives the most" bang for the bucks "?

In practice, for me impossible, let's say that every driver Faital Pro needs a 50 liter box. There will be 500 liters of speaker boxes in the combined listening room / living room. Think about what place they would take. But theoretically you can think about it. Generally that is, for example, two good drivers vs one, on paper, better driver that costs as much as the two good ones.

..that BEYMA 10MC700ND 10 was by the way a cool driver. :cool::p
 

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voodooless

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It is. Together with the B&C 10NW76, it's one of the lowest distortion 10" drivers around. But that one does "only" 800W program :facepalm:;)
 
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voodooless

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DanielT

DanielT

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I can always think. It was cool elements / drivers.

Faital Pro 10FE200 cheap and probably kind to the amplifier (8 Ohm). Vs the best B&C 21IPAL
There is a need for amplifiers that can really handle low ohms, observe 1 Ohm. Plus slightly more expensive than 10FE200:

shot_2022-03-18_12-41-06.png



On the other hand, that BEYMA 10MC700ND 10 .... Damn it seems interesting. :pHm I have to think about my budget.

I'll get some speaker calculation software and simulate a bit. Attach a picture of a graph info about my compression driver XD 125
 

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DanielT

DanielT

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Or a few of these:
That one my neighbors would love he he, :D.....if I now move into an apartment in the future. But I might move into a small house in the countryside. I'll see what happens.:)

In fact, a lot about speakers and subwoofers is based on where I will live in the future. Adaptation to possible neighbors.
 
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DanielT

DanielT

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But the Faital Pro 10FE200 seems to have potential .... in any case .... If the graphs are correct, for the price it costs, it seems yummy..Almost too good to be true.:)

Although it's just simulations, then the element should be in a box with and work in reality.


Edit:
Crossover 1.8 kHz, 10 inch driver and lobing for example ... hm hm. Like I said, I'm starting a new thread.:)
 

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