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Speaker Dispersion - Wider? Narrower? - Your Personal Preference?

dlaloum

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Detailed imaging - placement in space left to right is 99% due to direct sound - and the reflections mostly tend to interfere with that.

However our big brains are really good at seperating initial sounds, from their reflections... so as long as the reflections hit our ears with sufficient delay, they don't interfere with imaging. (I know, this is motherhood and apple-pie, audio 101, most of us already know this, but always good to review basics)

So important audiophile trick number 1 - keep the speakers far enough from the wall behind them, that we get the necessary delay, which allows imaging to then "work" properly....
But why bother with directional speakers - none of the directional sound goes backwards - and that is where things get more complicated... speakers aren't perfect... in a modern audio system they are the "least perfect" component...!! - some/many/most box speakers, resonate (and unless they are sealed designs... intentionally use some parts of that resonance to increase efficiency!) - there is some sound radiated to the sides and the rear from the box itself.
Many who have used panel speakers, boxless speakers (baffle speakers), or some designs such as "round" speakers (Gallo, Cabasse, a few others) - are probably very sensitive to this particular type of distortion "the sound of the box" - others who have only ever used box speakers, tend not to notice it (the joys of habituation!).

So you either have to move the reflecting surface further away (move speakers out from the wall), or ensure there is no backwards radiated sound (tricky... remember speakers are imperfect!) - or use absorbant / diffusing surfaces behind the speakers.

So much for the front wall...

Side walls have the same issues - but here we are aiming for something different (usually) - the best concert halls, have a strong radiant field, that is to say, a substantial (majority!?) part of the sound a audience member hears, is being reflected off the various walls before it hits his/her ears - and the best concert halls leverage that!

Similarly with listening rooms - you actually don't want a "dead" listening room, with no reflections (all reflections absorbed)...
How close the speaker is to side walls has an impact, how wide the speakers dispersion is, has an impact, what surfaces and/or objects are on the side walls has an impact...

So for a traditional listening room, you want diffuse reflected sound, with some delay (same as for the front) - so it doesn't mess with your imaging.

The "soundstage" as opposed to the imaging, will be primarily driven by reflected sound.

So which is better... wide dispersion or narrow - depends completely on the room and the speaker placement.

I far prefer a wide dispersion design, in a room properly set up to take advantage of it - my current speakers have tweeters with 330 degree dispersion (almost full circle!! - might as well be an omni!) - and the midranges are in spheres, and are also known for their wide dispersion (I have no measurements or specs to lean on for those)...


How things may change in the near future...

If we move from a room based reverberant soundfield, to an artificially generated soundfield (driven by many speakers in a full surround setup including heights etc...) - then optimal performance, may indeed require a focus on more directed sound (narrow dispersion) and absorbing/diffusing as much as possible of the room's own reverberant soundfield, so the desired artificial soundfield can be imposed on it.

Turning your listening room / HT into an anechoic chamber has always been seen to be a negative for stereo audio, but for fully processed surround, with true soundfield processing, it may be highly desirable.

With things like Trinnov, and Dirac SRC, combined with the soundfields that Yamaha studied in depth during the 1980's, we could be moving into a completely new era of audio in the home.
 

AudioJester

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As long as it’s controlled I don’t have a preference, though I think medium to wide would work better for daily usage to allow tonality not shifting a lot

This is how I feel about it as well. Constant/controlled is key for me
 

Steve Dallas

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It depends on the room and seating location for me.

In my media room, I like wider dispersion, and I chose Revel F206s for that room.

In my smaller home office, where I have no possibility of treating the side walls, I like narrower dispersion, so I chose KEF R3s.
 

kongwee

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My studio monitor are now forward firing within stereo triangle. Running several sweep test and end up this position.
 

tmtomh

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I tend to prefer narrower, but only because it's easier to control. If I have to choose between an "enveloping" or "precise" soundstage, I'll choose the latter.
 

Holmz

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I have only had narrower, but I can imagine people with difficult rooms would also often opt for a bit less spray onto the walls.

Maybe it is better to treat the walls, and go for a speaker that then sprays them?
(Dunno.)
 

YSC

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I have only had narrower, but I can imagine people with difficult rooms would also often opt for a bit less spray onto the walls.

Maybe it is better to treat the walls, and go for a speaker that then sprays them?
(Dunno.)
somehow I used the genelecs in real small room with untreated surfaces at real close proximity, but then with the dispersion pattern it don't sound unnatural to me, quite weird but maybe it's my brain easier to adapt to room reflects when directivity is controlled? no idea and as long as it sounded nice, I don't really care
 

Holmz

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somehow I used the genelecs in real small room with untreated surfaces at real close proximity, but then with the dispersion pattern it don't sound unnatural to me, quite weird but maybe it's my brain easier to adapt to room reflects when directivity is controlled? no idea and as long as it sounded nice, I don't really care

Maybe “being close” gave a stronger direct path response, than a reflected path response?

These things may be worth caring about, as your observation could certainly help someone else considering them for a similar room and layout.
Certainly it seems to be worth caring about in the community sense of understanding it.

But in a pragmatic sense, it is always good to have a win, and I can understand the individual not caring about why it was a win.
 

McFly

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Prefer wider dispersion with music made with instruments, prefer narrower with electronic music.
 

YSC

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Maybe “being close” gave a stronger direct path response, than a reflected path response?

These things may be worth caring about, as your observation could certainly help someone else considering them for a similar room and layout.
Certainly it seems to be worth caring about in the community sense of understanding it.

But in a pragmatic sense, it is always good to have a win, and I can understand the individual not caring about why it was a win.
I think the being real up close do help a lot, when the reflected sound is delayed by quite a bit. I could imagine with a narrower beamwidth It could sound more focus but maybe less freedom to not toe it in as much, which don't sound like a great idea when every inch of space is valuable
 

xaviescacs

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Depends on the "use", as others have said. I prefer wider dispersion for my living room because we mostly listen to music while having dinner and moving around, and more focused on my studio, where I have my seat precisely placed just a nudge inside of the stereo triangle.

In the living room we have a pair of Focal Alpha 50 Evo, with wider dispersion, about 80 degrees (yep, just 10 below 90), and the sound isn't that different listening from outside the stereo triangle than from inside it. Of course everything sounds centered, but it's not a different movie, like if it was a different pair o speakers.

In my studio I have a pair of Genelec 8030C, and the difference from sitting on the triangle or outside is huge. From anywhere in the room it sounds good to great, but from the right spot is pure accuracy and enjoyment, it's only from there that you feel the difference from an almost-SOTA speaker to a good speaker.

Of course the perceived differences will depend on many other factors than dispersion, the first being my lack of proper education on acoustics.
 

fineMen

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Side walls have the same issues - but here we are aiming for something different (usually) - the best concert halls, have a strong radiant field, that is to say, a substantial (majority!?) part of the sound a audience member hears, is being reflected off the various walls before it hits his/her ears - and the best concert halls leverage that!
True, but how to transport this experience into the home? Toole says that the reverberation at home doesn't spoil the identification of the recorded reverberation because the recording venue is bigger, and the bigger sound field overrides the small-ish home.

If we move from a room based reverberant soundfield, to an artificially generated soundfield (driven by many speakers in a full surround setup including heights etc...) - then optimal performance, may indeed require a focus on more directed sound (narrow dispersion) and absorbing/diffusing as much as possible of the room's own reverberant soundfield, so the desired artificial soundfield can be imposed on it.
A bit off topic, but I think worth to mention. Should humanity close itself in instead of enjoying e/g music together in a dedicated social building, e/g concert hall, cinema? From my side it is a loud and clear 'No, we don't need it, we don't want it, a nightmare'.
 
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valerianf

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It dépends what we are looking for.
One user case is one chair placed at the optimal and unique point where all sound are converging: good for a single audiophile...
The other user case is a Home Theater or a music party mode were the sound is envelopping the whole room, bouncing on the wall and ceiling.

In the first case directive speakers are suitable.
In the second case, well, high efficiency and low distortion speakers are needed to be able to produce high sound pressure.
I do not think that sound engineer are measuring diretivity of the speakers in a concert hall: the decibel meter is king.

Conclusion: directivity may be an issue, but only for the tweeter.
I have listened a long time ago a Magnat Plasma tweeter that radiated at 360 degrees.
It was magical!
 

Schollaudio

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Having 90 degree radial horns, I'm going to say 90 degree horizontal is perfect!

Seriously, I agree about a moving image being distressing. I went to MTM to nail the image vertically at the center of the horn.
90 by 60 works very well in my room. I tried 60 by 40 and it was too dead sounding.
 

fineMen

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I do not think that sound engineer are measuring diretivity of the speakers in a concert hall: the decibel meter is king.
Speakers in a concert hall? And then there is 'ambience'. Directivity and Reverberation and precedence effect and more.

Conclusion: directivity may be an issue, but only for the tweeter.
I have listened a long time ago a Magnat Plasma tweeter that radiated at 360 degrees.
It was magical!
Magig in deed! Nothing for real ;-) Honestly, why would one like 360° in treble but a 60° and less (due to the too high x-over) in the midrange?
 

Vacceo

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I use multichannel, hence, I prefeer a narrow point source.
 

Plcamp

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While liking most everything else about my Open Baffles, the rapidly changing off axis response of the 8” Tangband fullrange limits listening position quite severely. So in this case I’d say directionality is the biggest problem.

I largely optimized this by pointing that driver down about 10 degrees (this reduces the off axis response delta) but am long term debating with myself to just replace it with either smaller diameter mtm around a dome tweeter or a horn to get control. I can’t make up my mind what to do. I find Joseph Crowe’s horns very appealing at the moment.

I suppose I would say the best is “just wide enough” for your listening positions, in order to avoid short (less than 6ms) reflections that unnecessarily reduce your perception of clarity.

Upstairs I have Paradigm dome tweeter towers, do not perceive any significant dispersion problems, lucky enough to not have any reflection issues there.
 
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dlaloum

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Conclusion: directivity may be an issue, but only for the tweeter.
I have listened a long time ago a Magnat Plasma tweeter that radiated at 360 degrees.
It was magical!
Have a listen to some Gallo speakers with the CDT tweeter ... base dispersion is 330 degrees (unless they have modified it)
 

changer

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I have experiences with the following speakers:
- 1) Elac Carina 247.4, the bigger 2.5 way brother of the bookshelf that was tested by Amir: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...arina-bs243-4-review-bookshelf-speaker.34398/
- 2) Genelec 8030A, where I assume the dispersion is probably as it is with the 8030C: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ds/genelec-8030c-studio-monitor-review.14795/
- 3) My own speaker prototype that will probably get finished at some point within the next 10 years, 10-inch woofer, 90 x 50 nominal dispersion waveguide: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/neumann-kh150.33454/page-5#post-1174196

1) The narrowest of this three speakers is, sadly, my current chipboard monster. To solve this a custom waveguide is supposed to be 3D-printed before the world has ended. The speakers stand 2.7 meters from my listening position (baffle) in an equal length stereo triangle. I find the image too contained, lest some phase magic is active in the mix. Also, stuff like Eric Clapton's Unplugged concert works well. Still, could be much better. The directivity index between 1k and 20k rises gradually from 8 dB to 10 dB. I could not really give a proper location of where the stereo image resides: Despite that it sits at the baffle plane, it is also very much "there," live and in your head. Not like a headphone. It's really very live in a way, as if you listen to a jazz concert and the sound of the trumpet is something tangibly occupying your consciousness.

2) The Genelec 8030A stand further away at an office that I occasionally work in. The room is also a fair bit larger than my living room. Amir scribbled a pattern width of +-60 degrees (120) in his review, but the pattern can also be rated lower as an 50-55 degree, I would say. The DI index of the Genelec rises from 6 dB to 10 dB between 1-20 kHz. The speaker is much smaller and cannot restrict directivity where the woofer is playing. In the room where I listen too them, my listening position is a long triangle, I think 3.5 to 4 meters from the speakers. I find them to sound much more spacious than my own speakers, despite that the directivity index would not necessarily suggest. The stereo image is stretched out and located at the baffle plane, but deeper and less present.

3) The Elac 247.4 stand in the living room of a friend of mine. The directivity index only rises in the top octave, and before is around 5-6 dB. This speaker has 140-150 degree, very wide pattern. It is a passive speaker, and I do not know anything about its crossover slopes. However, the image lies far behind the speakers. This speaker is super spacious and the listening room is virtually enlarged by the image's properties. While this is a very pleasant experience, the stereo phantom center is also super dark. I had tried for a couple of times to rearrange the speakers so to have "more power" in the center, but I could never achieve an improvement. This is opposite to my own speakers, whose stereo phantom center is brutally strong, and they can be positioned in an stereo triangle with a wider base without loosing quality in the middle. However, my room does not allow such a position.

Question: Which pattern width do I prefer?

Distance: After my experience with the Genelecs, I would first of all prefer a bigger listening room. With the speakers further away and typical early reflections arriving later in time at the LP, but more of them, I enjoy stereo music much more. With a controlled directivity speaker, I would love to enjoy them from 4-5 meters if I had such space, they sound so big then.

Very wide pattern: I do not like the Carinas too much. While the envelopement is spectacular, I miss a lot of detail. Especially the phantom center is no good, but I also miss some clarity. I, however, do not know if this would be different with i. e. a GGNTKT M1, that has the same wide 140-degree pattern and cardiod bass.

Driver size: I prefer my 10-inch two way speakers over the Genelecs, because the lower frequencies are more controlled and I have elaborate room EQ and a lot of time invested in voicing them. They sound great, yet a bit too narrow and close.

Between all those speakers, a direct comparison is problematic: This is because the appearance of the image is so different. I do not assume that with a wider pattern waveguide, my two-ways will shift their image towards the back as the ELAC Carinas have it. This axial position of the image is sometimes attributed to crossover topologies, but I have a limited understanding of the issue.

My goal is to have a waveguide with approximately a JBL M2 pattern, 120 degree horizontal by 100 degree vertical. This would result in a directivity index of about 7 dB between 1k to 20k. This is somewhat detrimental to image exactness and compromises the recipe of a controlled directivity speaker, that could exclude very early reflections. So I don't know if this is a good approach.
 
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valerianf

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"Have a listen to some Gallo speakers with the CDT tweeter"
I did not know the CDT tweeter technology.
It is an interesting concept with a large diffusion angle.
I need to find a way to listen to it.
 
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