Speaker Cables?

[SIY]

Signal flows at a large proportion of the speed of light.

Stop trying to learn about electricity from scam sites. Try actual physics books if you are sincerely interested.

 

[MRC01]

...Since electricity flows much slower than the speed of light shouldn't there be a "T" or delta T for time in the specific equation we want to use?

As I understand this, the electric field that moves the speaker elements moves at the speed of light, which in copper is about 70% of the speed of light in vacuum. That is so much faster than the speed of sound in air, there is no need to compensate.

The electrons that make up the electric current in the wire move much slower, but that is not of consequence. The speaker elements respond to the electric field.

 

[Johan Liebert]

I think I got it.

A straight cable run is basically a single coil where EMF=-NdBA/dt. The longer the run is or greater the spacing between conductors greater the area or the greater the L is.

Now I gotta figure out capacitance and remember or learn how a RLC filter works.

I'll echo what SIY says and ignore anything about flat cables or skin effect from that site Kach22i.

https://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/speaker-wire-gauge

 

[maty]

MEASUREMENTS: NB Cables "The Vigilante", Raymond Cables, Canare 4S11, Slinkylinks Speaker Cables. (And related thoughts on audiophile "snake oil".)
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2020/04/measurements-nb-cables-vigilante.html

[ III. Canare 4S11 "Star Quad" DIY Speaker Cables

Insertion Loss (10' Canare 4S11 to 4Ω load) = -0.056dB

Excellent resistance results as one would expect from 11AWG cable, lower inductance than both "The Vigilante" and Raymond Cables with marginally higher capacitance than both as one might expect from the "star quad" twisting. For 10' length, using inductance of 1.01μH, capacitance 294.5pF:

Into 4Ω load, the 20kHz roll-off would be a mere -0.0041dB or so with -1.75° phase shift thanks to that low inductance value.

Remember that the "star quad" configuration can be good to reduce EMI emission from these cables; great to reduce interference if you're running low-voltage wires like interconnects, phono, or microphone lines nearby. The downside to this cable to be honest is that it's not particularly pretty with that satin black (or gray) plastic outer sheath :-|. Certain "Golden Ear" Audiophile friends might not be particularly impressed even though it'll sound as good as any other high quality speaker cable regardless of price. ]


Related,

Star quad, the best geometry to build audio and power cables by maty
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=156793.0

 

[raindance]

I don't want to hi-jack the thread but have a quick question - on topic.

I have some high quality and very long (25 foot ish) speaker wires (Nordost), just hooked them up but have about 2/3rds the length still coiled up in hook and loop ties as the new run is much shorter.

Any danger in creating built up resistance coiled up like this?

I plan on replacing the speaker wires with something shorter and cheaper soon, just asking for the next two weeks of use.

Martin Logan - Aerius that goes down to 2-ohm paired with old Dynaco 120A amp until I refurbish my big tube amps.

I don't play loud, don't want to kill my little old amp.

How loud you play has no impact on the longevity of a tube amp. Nor does extra resistance, so long as you're not driving an open circuit.

 

[Wes]

The important thing is to suit your cables to the type of music you are listening to.

I have recently founded the Snake Oil Cable Co. to do just that! We offer a complete range of cables for your listening enjoyment!

California Mountain Snake - this premier cable is specially designed for those who whistle Bernard Hermann scores

Black Mamba - use this cable if you often listen to music with changes of affinity such as experimental jazz; also good at sock hops

Sidewinder - especially designed for country music

Copperhead - perfect for those who bring a knife to gun fight and Win!

Cottonmouth - perfect cable for Japanese snow music

 

[Johan Liebert]

MEASUREMENTS: NB Cables "The Vigilante", Raymond Cables, Canare 4S11, Slinkylinks Speaker Cables. (And related thoughts on audiophile "snake oil".)
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2020/04/measurements-nb-cables-vigilante.html

[ III. Canare 4S11 "Star Quad" DIY Speaker Cables

Insertion Loss (10' Canare 4S11 to 4Ω load) = -0.056dB

Excellent resistance results as one would expect from 11AWG cable, lower inductance than both "The Vigilante" and Raymond Cables with marginally higher capacitance than both as one might expect from the "star quad" twisting. For 10' length, using inductance of 1.01μH, capacitance 294.5pF:

Into 4Ω load, the 20kHz roll-off would be a mere -0.0041dB or so with -1.75° phase shift thanks to that low inductance value.

Remember that the "star quad" configuration can be good to reduce EMI emission from these cables; great to reduce interference if you're running low-voltage wires like interconnects, phono, or microphone lines nearby. The downside to this cable to be honest is that it's not particularly pretty with that satin black (or gray) plastic outer sheath :-|. Certain "Golden Ear" Audiophile friends might not be particularly impressed even though it'll sound as good as any other high quality speaker cable regardless of price. ]


Related,

Star quad, the best geometry to build audio and power cables by maty
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=156793.0

Thank you for the measurements!

 

[wwenze]

Remember that the "star quad" configuration can be good to reduce EMI emission from these cables

Yea but that only works when both conductors are carrying the same current, not in a bi-wire setup like in the photo.

 

[GXAlan]

https://forum.polkaudio.com/discuss...t-11-douglas-connection-dcf-92-speaker-cables

Does anyone have comments on these measurements? I believe the Monster Cable Z3 had the "terminator network" (so it was active, similar to MIT cable)

 

[SIY]

https://forum.polkaudio.com/discuss...t-11-douglas-connection-dcf-92-speaker-cables

Does anyone have comments on these measurements? I believe the Monster Cable Z3 had the "terminator network" (so it was active, similar to MIT cable)

It would be kind to call this guy a snake oil peddler.

 

[GXAlan]

It would be kind to call this guy a snake oil peddler.

I read the post more carefully -- I agree. He wasn't measuring performance through the cable -- he was measuring the "Cooker" which very easily could be changing its output over time independent of the cables.

So the only difference is the frequency response -- which can be explained by the cable having active elements in the signal chain.

 

[Count Arthur]

Overkill for most home use. If the conductor is 4mm diameter you may have difficulty with it fitting connectors.

4mm2 is only about 2.3mm diameter.

 

[MickeyBoy]

Agreed but I splurge on the 4s11: https://www.markertek.com/product/4...14awg-4-conductor-speaker-cable-grey-per-foot

Looks nice, but what would be a good connector?

 

[SIY]

So the only difference is the frequency response -- which can be explained by the cable having active elements in the signal chain.

Or just a matter of repeatability between measurements. I think that’s more likely.

 

[Speedskater]

the DarqueKnight has started about 60 threads in the Polk forum related to AC power, cables or amplifiers (and many more on other topics). In almost every thread he finds great differences in measurements and listening tests.
He is a collage professor in the areas of Communications Signals and Systems, Broadband Telecommunications Network Design and Optimization, and Stochastic Modeling. While this is in the electrical department, he seems to have little electrical engineering knowledge. But he does have access to nice measurement equipment. He lacks understanding of test procedures and protocols. A decade ago he wrote a paper that demonstrated his mis-understanding of A/BX tests.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Looks nice, but what would be a good connector?

The Nakamichi connectors are OK.

 

[QMuse]

The electrons that make up the electric current in the wire move much slower, but that is not of consequence. The speaker elements respond to the electric field.

Nope, drivers are responding to current (electron) flow. Once the field has spread over the conductor electrons start to move all at once over the entire conductor at much slower speed, but that doesn't matter as the ones in coil also started to move at once producing magnetic field which reacts with permanent magnet.

 

[MRC01]

Yes, that was my point. The electric field is established at the speed of light across the cable. The fact that it may take several seconds (or whatever) for an electron to travel the length of the cable is irrelevant because the driver responds to the electron flow at its position, and they start flowing as soon as the electric field appears.

 

[dunkuk]

I would look for reasonably thick OFC copper and if possible a good quality material for the insulator. QED make a good budget cable, they were similar in dimension to the classic 79 strand speaker cable and have a polyproylene insulator. I bought some in about 1997 and still think they are still fine. I would say keep them as short as possible. I did notice an improvement with bi-wiring but I think its most likely that it's having twice as much copper between the amp and the speakers that does that. I'm not convinced that it's worth it spending any more on cable, probably better to spend the money on a better phono cartidge, amp or speakers.

https://www.qed.co.uk/qed-original-cable.html

I've tried using 4mm gold bullet connectors recently on my cables as I was using them for model aeroplanes and they work suprisingly well in some amps and speakers.

 

[Karu]

Guys, is there a scientific conclusion on if unequal speaker cables are a no-go? OCD issues aside, shortest and cheapest for me is 1.5 meters for left speaker and 8 meters for the right speaker and I can go with either 12AWG or 10AWG. Any (sound impact) reason not to get the shortest length form each?