Speaker Cable (sorry!)

[Philberish]

Afternoon all,
I find myself in a discussion with various snake-oil driven folk about the audibility or speaker cable. I, for what it's worth, fall very much into the camp that believes there's many easily measurable aspects of speaker/amp systems that are vastly more significant than the changes that may result from the substitution of one eye-wateringly expensive speaker cable for another eye-wateringly expensive speaker cable. But hey, not everybody sees things that way.

So, can anybody here point me in the direction of any properly peer-reviewed objective technical evidence that points to speaker cables having an influence beyond what would be expected and predictable from their bulk resistance, capacitance and inductance (this is of course after they've been, "burned in"

Thanks
Phil

 

[Calleberg]

...points to speaker cables having an influence beyond what would be expected and predictable from their bulk resistance, capacitance and inductance (this is of course after they've been, "burned in"

Well, you are asking for the impossible here...
But just for shits and giggles there is that "Megatest"
(That you may or may not have already stumbled upon. I think it has popped up here before):

Megatest speaker cables - real measurements, samples and blind test!

What a bizarrely intensive, educational and special speaker cable test this has been to do. The aim was to establish a link between measuring and listening.

alpha-audio.net

It does not prove anything of what you are asking for. They have tried their best, but scientifically it is mostly a trainwreck. Still it is sorta fun to read, and I do respect the effort put in. (and there are some actual measurements too.)

 

[Trell]

There are snake-oil driven people in any area, and audio is no exception. While believing in magic speaker cables is relatively harmless, it can be deadly if one believes in homeopathy.

They are isually deeply resistant to science showing that they are mistaken in their believes, but some do change their views as can be seen by a number of members here on ASR saying so.

 

[ryanosaur]

There's the old stand-by Roger Russel article on Cables...
Gene at AH has tested some and has videos and articles about it...
Amir has done some tests, too...

None of it will change the minds of those that think there is magic inside of a single-crystal extruded copper wire that's been quantum tunneled, chryo'd, ccok'd and burnt-in for 1000 hours and then had arbitrary arrows printed on the insulator showing directionality and had a battery pack strapped on...

 

[VintageFlanker]

can anybody here point me in the direction of any properly peer-reviewed objective technical evidence that points to speaker cables having an influence beyond what would be expected and predictable from their bulk resistance, capacitance and inductance

Easy: There is none.

Don't waste your time.

 

[AdamG]

Afternoon all,
I find myself in a discussion with various snake-oil driven folk about the audibility or speaker cable. I, for what it's worth, fall very much into the camp that believes there's many easily measurable aspects of speaker/amp systems that are vastly more significant than the changes that may result from the substitution of one eye-wateringly expensive speaker cable for another eye-wateringly expensive speaker cable. But hey, not everybody sees things that way.

So, can anybody here point me in the direction of any properly peer-reviewed objective technical evidence that points to speaker cables having an influence beyond what would be expected and predictable from their bulk resistance, capacitance and inductance (this is of course after they've been, "burned in"

Thanks
Phil

What you should be asking is, are there any Peer-reviewed Double Blind Objective technical studies or evidence that Proves speaker cables have or make an audible difference/improvement? Trying to prove a Negative is a futile exercise.

 

[DVDdoug]

The Amazing Randi (magician and psychic debunker) is no longer alive but he had a Million Dollar Speaker Cable Challenge.

 

[Speedskater]

a] There is the very rare possibility of an amplifier >> cable >> loudspeaker combination ringing or oscillating.
in papers by: Cyril Bateman and Bob Cordell

b] There is the very rare possibility of a cable acting as an interference antenna.
in papers by Jim Brown and others.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Then there is this little experiment Archimago did

DIY: Archimago's Colorful Set of Speaker Cables. (And about that Darko/McGowan "EXPERT" interview on USB cables & other claims.)

A blog for audiophiles about more objective topics. Measurements of audio gear. Reasonable, realistic, no snakeoil assessment of sound, and equipment.

archimago.blogspot.com

MEASUREMENTS: Archimago's Colorful Speaker Cables, KnuKonceptz, AmazonBasics, and "freebie" speaker cable. (And changes at Audiophile Style.)

A blog for audiophiles about more objective topics. Measurements of audio gear. Reasonable, realistic, no snakeoil assessment of sound, and equipment.

archimago.blogspot.com

I think it's just hilarious.

 

[AudiOhm]

Some good reading here, posted many times already I am sure.
Speaker Wire by Roger Russell

Ohms

 

[delta76]

Well, you are asking for the impossible here...
But just for shits and giggles there is that "Megatest"
(That you may or may not have already stumbled upon. I think it has popped up here before):

Megatest speaker cables - real measurements, samples and blind test!

What a bizarrely intensive, educational and special speaker cable test this has been to do. The aim was to establish a link between measuring and listening.

alpha-audio.net

It does not prove anything of what you are asking for. They have tried their best, but scientifically it is mostly a trainwreck. Still it is sorta fun to read, and I do respect the effort put in. (and there are some actual measurements too.)

Alpha audio made a test with network switches and claimed they could hear differences. That invalidated all of their credibility. The test you posted was criticised here for major flaws, people generally applauded their effort, but suggested them to get back to drawing board to design a better test.

After the network switch test however, I think it is clear what their intention is

 

[fpitas]

Well, I'm a believer. I removed my speaker cables, and the difference really was night and day!

 

[RobL]

Well, I am aware of a couple of papers that purport to show that different cables will affect high frequency loudspeaker performance…not exactly light reading though.
I don’t know if they’ve been posted here before so:
Part 1
Part 2

 

[mhardy6647]

Well, I'm a believer. I removed my speaker cables, and the difference really was night and day!

Sort of like the tweak I finally learned for my Klipsch Cornwalls that took them to the next level*. They never sounded better in my house than they did after I sold them to someone who lived about 20 miles away.

_______________
* An authentic audiophile expression -- which, if nothing else, suggests that most of 'em don't have much of an understanding of quantum mechanics.

 

[egellings]

In a speaker wire, just what is it about the wire that would change after burn-in? Maybe the wire gets more flexible after that, hey?

 

[fpitas]

In a speaker wire, just what is it about the wire that would change after burn-in? Maybe the wire gets more flexible after that, hey?

It gets more electrically flexible from all those electrons going through.

 

[AudiOhm]

AudioQuest Rocket 88 With 72v DBS Speaker Cable​

Dielectric Bias System (DBS)
Form their site.
"Greatly improved performance is made possible by a constant 72 volt charge on all Rocket 88's insulation".

I thought wire/cable insulation is non conductive.

How did they arrive at 72 volts, was it just guess or did they perform actual tests and 72v was the best?

Ohms

 

[SIY]

Fred Davis and Dick Greiner covered the whole loudspeaker cable thing pretty thoroughly maybe 35-40 years ago. That was of course ignored by the snake oil peddlers and their dupes.

Bottom line- use sufficiently low DCR for the desired length.

 

[FrantzM]

Google this:

"Observations of a controlled Cable Test" + AVS Forum


Peace.

 

[AudiOhm]

This?
Observations of a Controlled Cable Test

Ohms