Speaker Cabinet Finishing

[HighFutility]

Okay, fresh question.

Many members suggest Tung oil as a finish.

Why not Boiled Linseed/linseed, Danish, Teak oils? Why Tung specifically?

 

[HighFutility]

I just use shellac because I know how to make it look nice. I sand to 1000, apply shellac with a stain pad, sand between coats, then just buff with steel wool. Can go from unfinished cabinet to several coats applied, sanded, buffed and ready to go in a day. Hate all the water based polys I tried. Don't care for how long oil poly smells and dry/cure time. When I apply shellac I can just do it in a room with a window open, pretty low VOC compared to a lot of stuff. Haven't tried a french polish or lacquers.

Shellac does go on thin though so might not be up your alley.

View attachment 478397

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Purchased a pound of shellac flakes. Im waiting on the arrival of denatured alcohol.

 

[Sal1950]

Purchased a pound of shellac flakes. Im waiting on the arrival of denatured alcohol.

Damn, amazing the things you can learn on a Hi-Fi website.
I searched shellac flakes and learned shellac isn't just a wood finish you buy ready to use in a can but can be
custom made with different types of shellac flakes dissolved in alcohol or other things for custom finishes.
Learning, Learning, Learning,

 

[Keith_W]

Okay, fresh question.

Many members suggest Tung oil as a finish.

Why not Boiled Linseed/linseed, Danish, Teak oils? Why Tung specifically?

Why not boiled linseed oil: because it darkens over time. I am a member of some wooden ship model forums and discussion on finishes is common. Very few people use boiled linseed oil for this reason, because darkening of wood on ship models is not something you want. It might be OK for furniture.

Also, Tung oil is known to be food safe. So you can use it for chopping boards, cheese platters, etc. I don't think Linseed oil can be used for that, but I may be wrong.

I have no experience with those other types of oil.

 

[mhardy6647]

Damn, amazing the things you can learn on a Hi-Fi website.
I searched shellac flakes and learned shellac isn't just a wood finish you buy ready to use in a can but can be
custom made with different types of shellac flakes dissolved in alcohol or other things for custom finishes.
Learning, Learning, Learning,

from the "lac bug"

Kerriidae - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Shellac is pretty cool stuff.

 

[Sal1950]

Shellac is pretty cool stuff.

Yea, but unlike Tung Oil, you can't drink it.

 

[mhardy6647]

Yea, but unlike Tung Oil, you can't drink it.

Although... if you use Everclear instead of SD alcohol to dissolve it... the party's on!

 

[a4eaudio]

Why not Boiled Linseed/linseed, Danish, Teak oils? Why Tung specifically?

A very popular finish on a few other DIY speaker forums is 1/3 boiled Linseed oil, 1/3 mineral spirits, and 1/3 oil based polyurethane (sheen of your choice). Wipe/brush it on, wait an hour and wipe off the excess. Let it dry and repeat as desired. Google what"Danish oil" is, and this is pretty much the DIY version.

 

[mhardy6647]

A very popular finish on a few other DIY speaker forums is 1/3 boiled Linseed oil, 1/3 mineral spirits, and 1/3 oil based polyurethane (sheen of your choice). Wipe/brush it on, wait an hour and wipe off the excess. Let it dry and repeat as desired. Google what"Danish oil" is, and this is pretty much the DIY version.

Polyurethane? Really? Seems kind of inauthentic(?). It's a relatively modern synthetic polymer (patented in 1937 per google's AI ). Danish Modern oil, I suppose?

 

[Keith_W]

Polyurethane? Really? Seems kind of inauthentic(?). It's a relatively modern synthetic polymer (patented in 1937 per google's AI ). Danish Modern oil, I suppose?

Polyurethane has its pros and cons, too. It's easy to apply, and does not require multiple coats. It cures fairly quickly. The curing reaction is not exothermic, like Tung Oil (do not discard Tung oil soaked rags into anything flammable, e.g. paper or woodchips - it can spontaneously ignite!). It lasts almost forever, especially if it is used indoors. It seals the pores, so the wood is water and stain resistant - so it is a great choice for table and counter tops. BUT ... it gives wood a plasticky finish which I dislike, and reapplication requires that you sand off the previous layer, which is a pain. I never use it, not even for indoor furniture. I prefer periodic reapplications of Tung oil and taking care not to spill wine/coffee on wood. If it happens, I wipe it off immediately.

 

[a4eaudio]

Polyurethane? Really? Seems kind of inauthentic(?). It's a relatively modern synthetic polymer (patented in 1937 per google's AI ). Danish Modern oil, I suppose?

Did you know that Watco Tung oil, along with actually being 20% Tung oil, is full of solvents and carcinogens?

 

[mhardy6647]

Did you know that Watco Tung oil, along with actually being 20% Tung oil, is full of solvents and carcinogens?

I don't use Watco's "Tung oil", so... no.

 

[Groove01]

Okay, fresh question.

Many members suggest Tung oil as a finish.

Why not Boiled Linseed/linseed, Danish, Teak oils? Why Tung specifically?

In addition to other comments, IIRC boiled linseed can also have a very long cure time. Like days, weeks.

 

[a4eaudio]

In addition to other comments, IIRC boiled linseed can also have a very long cure time. Like days, weeks.

My first DIY speaker was done in Tung oil. It really was nice how the grain "popped"...but it had a 15 to 30 day cure time.
Pure boiled linseed oil says 30 to 45 days full cure.

 

[Keith_W]

Speaking of finishes ...

Time for some outdoor furniture maintenance. I will be applying 3 coats of Eucalyptus Oil. It is NOT food safe. It's great for outdoor furniture because it resists insects. But it needs periodic re-application. I haven't done this for 3 years, the wood was so thirsty that it drank up the oil. You can see the opposite corner is almost dry in the time it took for me to get to that spot.

 

[Quinton595]

I see a lot of discussion over various resins now so I thought I'd chime in again.

First, Tung oil and linseed oil are similar, but it's very important to note that when we are suggesting using these finishes, we are always suggesting using POLYMERIZED Tung oil, and BOILED Linseed oil. Even if we don't state it each time, it has to be polymerized / boiled. Do NOT use 100% pure, raw Tung oil, or you're looking at a drying time on the order of 45 days, same with raw linseed oil. And yes, as others have said, the difference between them is that Tung oil does not yellow as much over time.

Second, please be aware that there's almost no brand of Tung oil out there that is actually selling Tung oil. They're almost ALWAYS thinned, and mixed with other resins. The Watco Tung oil Finish is actually a Tung-oil and alkyd resin blend, per its own TDS. Its NOT pure Tung oil. It's closer to an old-school varnish than a true Tung oil finish. They no longer make their pure Tung oil product. The ONLY 100% pure, polymerized Tung oil I've been able to find at a big retailer is Lee Valley's Polymerized Tung Oil.

Danish oil is a blend of Tung oil, linseed oil, and a variety of resins, like Rosin (derived from pine trees). It forms a much thicker film than tung or linseed oil, and is more like a "varnish" of old.

Then you have actual "varnishes", which I put in quotations because there's no formal definition of varnish, but essentially its any resin, dissolved in a solvent. Typically, though, we use varnish to denote products whose resins are naturally-derived, as opposed to synthetic, but this is not a guarantee.

Then there's shellac, aka dissolved bug poop flakes. It's an extremely brittle and delicate finish, not suitable for real protection, but it has the ability to bond to damn near anything, and is often used as an intercoat for that reason. It also is used to produce a French polish finish.

To cover something in shellac, which is made of Lac, was called "lacquering".

In modern parlance, athough, lacquer is only actually lacquer if it's based around nitrocellulose. It dries super hard, super fast, and is super shiny. There are many products being advertised as lacquer which are not, and are simply being advertised that way to promote how they also dry fast and shiny and hard. They're usually acrylic clearcoats.

Then there's acrylic products, usually just referred to as acrylic enamels. They are based primarily around acrylic resin.

Then there's urethanes. Spar Urethane for the outdoors, poly urethane for indoors. It's based around Cabamate as its resin, and there's no coating out there that's tougher, or more abrasion resistant than Urethane. Many people find they look plasticky, but those are only the cheap ones, or if they're applied incorrectly. A high-quality poly is crystal clear, and can even be used to do a pseudo French polish.

 

[HighFutility]

When I say spray, I just mean spray. That is with whatever equipment you can get your hands on. I have that little sprayer, and I also have $2,500 airless spray equipment, but I still use that little guy sometimes, because it works perfectly, and is much easier to set up and clean than my airless system.

While it can't handle every coating out there the way that professional spray equipment can, it's more than good enough to get perfectly smooth results out of a wide array of consumer and semi-professional finishes.

Keep in mind that I'm only talking about woodworking finishes , and consumer grade ones at that. If you where to go over to an automotive painting forum, and ask if you could use a sprayer like this to re-paint a car, you would get laughed right out of the thread. Those types of finishes require professional HVLP equipment , because the Coatings are extremely sensitive to even the slightest change of variables , such as coating feed rate, air pressure, and air flow rate.

That said, I would strongly advise purchasing the Lee Valley unit over the Amazon unit. The Lee Valley one comes with metal nozzles, instead of plastic. This makes a significant difference in the quality of the atomization of the spray. It also comes with nozzles of different diameters, which allows you to get the best result possible out of a mix of materials.

-

Once more, however, I will digress and simply say that if it were my speaker, I'd slap some Tung oil on it and be done with it. Stupid-easy to apply, essentially impossible to fuck up, looks good too, and protects against basic stains and dirt. Not much in the way of physical abrasion protection, but then again, it's a speaker, not a dining table.

You also CAN absolutely brush/roll waterborne poly - I just rolled on some Saman gloss clear the other day and it came out beautifully, about 95% as good as a sprayed finish. It just is a bit trickier, and presents more opportunities to make mistakes. However, the fact that waterborne coatings dry so quickly is actually a boon here, as if you make a mistake, you need only wait a few hours, before you can sand it down and try again.

Hey, revamping this thread.

I purchased the https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B071X9FZ7R?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1. It appears to be the lee valley variant but comes with a few more accessories and is made by earlex. It's winter, and the weather is always -10 or more here (Canada). Can't spray outside. Or at least I'm assuming I cannot. I'd expect spraying needs the temperatures to be fairly warm to have the finish cure properly.

I outfitted a basement washroom that's not in use as a potential spray booth. It has an exhaust fan that I hope will remove the water-based Polyurethane atoms.

I sprayed my cabinets, and visually it looks good, but when you touch it, it feels rough. Im not sure of the correct word to use here, but maybe grainy is more appropriate. I was expecting a smooth, glass-like finish, but it is not.

using Behr satin https://www.behr.com/consumer/produ...ior-wood-stains/behr-water-based-polyurethane

Any insight greatly appreciated.

 

[Quinton595]

Hey, revamping this thread.

I purchased the https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B071X9FZ7R?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1. It appears to be the lee valley variant but comes with a few more accessories and is made by earlex. It's winter, and the weather is always -10 or more here (Canada). Can't spray outside. Or at least I'm assuming I cannot. I'd expect spraying needs the temperatures to be fairly warm to have the finish cure properly.

I outfitted a basement washroom that's not in use as a potential spray booth. It has an exhaust fan that I hope will remove the water-based Polyurethane atoms.

I sprayed my cabinets, and visually it looks good, but when you touch it, it feels rough. Im not sure of the correct word to use here, but maybe grainy is more appropriate. I was expecting a smooth, glass-like finish, but it is not.

using Behr satin https://www.behr.com/consumer/produ...ior-wood-stains/behr-water-based-polyurethane

Any insight greatly appreciated.

Hey mate, welcome back.

That Earlex unit is the one! Earlex / Homeright / Wagner are all the same company now.

So, your first mistake was using a product by Behr. Never use Behr. Use a quality polyurethane from a brand like Saman, Renner, General Finishes, Old Masters.

As for the texture you're describing, that's a dry coat. It's caused by one of two things: 1) You either held the gun too far from the item, so the droplets began to dry mid-air, on their way to the item, or, 2) You applied too thin of a coat, so there wasn't enough polyurethane on the surface for all of the droplets to connect and "wet out" into a smooth layer.

Fortunately, both of these issues are easily fixed - you just have to do another coat. Give it a quick buffing with some 220 or 240-grit sandpaper to haze up the surface and give the next coat something to bond to.

Getting the right layer thickness is always a challenge, especially with thin, waterborne coatings, because it's like a banana ripening. It's green, it's green, it's still green, it's yell-oh, too late, it's brown now.

You'll be spraying, and the item will not have enough of a coat, and will still be dry... And then it's still dry.... And then it's still dry.... And now it's perf-- oh, too late, it's too thick now and is dripping.

Striking that perfect balance takes a bit of practice but eventually you'll get it down, and you'll apply enough poly for all the droplets to connect and flatten out into a perfect, glassy layer.

 

[Mr. Widget]

Hey, revamping this thread.

I purchased the https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B071X9FZ7R?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1. It appears to be the lee valley variant but comes with a few more accessories and is made by earlex. It's winter, and the weather is always -10 or more here (Canada). Can't spray outside. Or at least I'm assuming I cannot. I'd expect spraying needs the temperatures to be fairly warm to have the finish cure properly.

I outfitted a basement washroom that's not in use as a potential spray booth. It has an exhaust fan that I hope will remove the water-based Polyurethane atoms.

I sprayed my cabinets, and visually it looks good, but when you touch it, it feels rough. Im not sure of the correct word to use here, but maybe grainy is more appropriate. I was expecting a smooth, glass-like finish, but it is not.

using Behr satin https://www.behr.com/consumer/produ...ior-wood-stains/behr-water-based-polyurethane

Any insight greatly appreciated.

I am not familiar with that Behr product, but since it is considered water based, I'm pretty sure the problem is that the water in the product caused the grain to raise. You will need to lightly sand without going through the product and reapply the finish. This may take a few coats.

This is typical of water born or water based wood finishes.

 

[Quinton595]

I am not familiar with that Behr product, but since it is considered water based, I'm pretty sure the problem is that the water in the product caused the grain to raise. You will need to lightly sand without going through the product and reapply the finish. This may take a few coats.

This is typical of water born or water based wood finishes.

Oh, yes, this is an excellent point too! Grain pop! Completely forgot.

Any time you're going to use a waterborne coating on wood, you should moisten the wood first with a damp rag or spray bottle, let the grain pop, then lightly sand it off before applying your first coat.

Or you can just do the intercoat sanding, as Mr. Widget points out.