• Welcome to ASR. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Speaker Cabinet Finishing

HighFutility

Active Member
Joined
May 8, 2022
Messages
218
Likes
191
Looking for insight on options for finishing wood veneer speaker cabinets.

I used to use Gloss, Satin polyurethane cut with 25-50% mineral spirits. I am located in Canada, where straight Mineral spirits were banned in 2024, and the only alternatives available are mineral spirit substitutes; the same applies to paint thinners. I tested these formulas, but they leave streaks and film residues on the finish.

I actually bought wipe-on poly for the first time; it's quite expensive compared to simply cutting straight poly with the aforementioned materials. The issue with wipe-on poly is that it's too thin and runs on the vertical surfaces. It dries/sets quicker, which was also a bit tricky when I was doing thin coats with it; it was almost as if I was wiping it right off. As soon as I try to apply it slightly thicker, it runs, and well, shit hits the fan.

Located in Ontario, Canada.
 
it’s a real problem to use water-borne finishes. in your position, i would use deft spray can lacquer. many coats go on quickly, and it’s a nice finish.
 
What kind of wood veneer are you using? If it’s a darker species, I found Waterlox Original to work well and very easy to apply.

It’s an all in one. This Waterlox Original on Bubinga.

IMG_6764.jpeg


IMG_6772.jpeg
 
waterlox used to have mineral spirits. they have a low VOC version. i personally find it a bit tricky to use, plus the long cure time.
 
What kind of wood veneer are you using? If it’s a darker species, I found Waterlox Original to work well and very easy to apply.

It’s an all in one. This Waterlox Original on Bubinga.

View attachment 477900

View attachment 477901
Nice build, have a few pairs myself.

The Waterlox original appears to be $117 a quart for me, a bit steep, but I will keep it in consideration. It seems that the gloss and satin finishes require an additional sealer.
 
Nothing beats shellac French polish for looks. It's also non-toxic and fairly easy to apply. It just takes time.
Non toxic? Shellac must be cut with alcohol. Even though pure ethanol isn't poisonous, it is still harmful.
Pure ethanol is the best and least toxic alcohol to use with shellac though, and I agree, when done right it provides a beautiful long lasting finish.
 
Non toxic? Shellac must be cut with alcohol. Even though pure ethanol isn't poisonous, it is still harmful.

Shellac itself is not harmful. It's often used as the shiny coating on pills and tablets. Alcohol is of course toxic when ingested in large quantities but I've heard there are people who enjoy it in moderation ...

I've used 90° proof Vodka for french polishing to good effect, but probably not the cheapest option. ;-)
 
waterlox used to have mineral spirits. they have a low VOC version. i personally find it a bit tricky to use, plus the long cure time.
It does have a long cure time (which is a pain), however I believe the original still has mineral spirits. I’ve never used the low VOC version.
 
I've used 90° proof Vodka for french polishing to good effect, but probably not the cheapest option. ;-)
Most people use denatured alcohol, but in California denatured alcohol is no longer available for sale to the public, but 190 proof 95% pure ethanol is available and is healthier and as you point out can be consumed in moderation.
 
The Waterlox original appears to be $117
Wow - that is really pricy. I believe you are correct, the Waterlox stains do require a sealer. I’m not sure I’d use Waterlox if going the stain / sealer route. For me it was the single step and easy application of the Original. (I think it cost me $65 for a quart, so not cheap, but $115 is steep)

Lots of other options. I have used Deft spray lacquer and found it easy to use. Lots of light coats is the trick.
 
Wow - that is really pricy. I believe you are correct, the Waterlox stains do require a sealer. I’m not sure I’d use Waterlox if going the stain / sealer route. For me it was the single step and easy application of the Original. (I think it cost me $65 for a quart, so not cheap, but $115 is steep)

Lots of other options. I have used Deft spray lacquer and found it easy to use. Lots of light coats is the trick.
1758651885976.png

For whatever reason, semi-gloss is an all-in-one. Satin and gloss are not.
 
Looking for insight on options for finishing wood veneer speaker cabinets.

I used to use Gloss, Satin polyurethane cut with 25-50% mineral spirits. I am located in Canada, where straight Mineral spirits were banned in 2024, and the only alternatives available are mineral spirit substitutes; the same applies to paint thinners. I tested these formulas, but they leave streaks and film residues on the finish.

I actually bought wipe-on poly for the first time; it's quite expensive compared to simply cutting straight poly with the aforementioned materials. The issue with wipe-on poly is that it's too thin and runs on the vertical surfaces. It dries/sets quicker, which was also a bit tricky when I was doing thin coats with it; it was almost as if I was wiping it right off. As soon as I try to apply it slightly thicker, it runs, and well, shit hits the fan.

Located in Ontario, Canada.

What's this? A question on ASR that I am actually qualified to answer? Pinch me, I must be dreaming.

Hello, fellow Ontarian woodworker here. I have a lot of experience with fine-finishing, and it's always a challenge. Perhaps the hardest part is that everyone you ask has their own opinion, and no two opinions seem to overlap, in terms of what products to use, and which products look the best.

The truth of the matter, in regards to which finish looks the best, is, ironically enough, very similar to asking the question on ASR "which headphones sound the best?". There's no objective answer, and in reality, most of the visual differences that people claim exist between finishes, are all but imperceptible to 99.9% of people. When done properly you can make any coating look like any other coating. Well, maybe except for French polish.

Now first things first, waterborne finishes outperform oil-based finishes, and have for about 15 to 20 years now. The only people who still hold on to oil-based coatings are the old heads who refuse to admit that water-based products are better. That's not to say that every water-based product is great, only that the quality ones are better than what you can buy in terms of oil-based coatings now.

Note that I said oil-based though. These are separate from "hot solvent" products, such as true Nitrocellulose Lacquer, and catalyzed conversion varnishes, or anything with isocyanates. Hot solvent coatings are still the best, but they are nasty to work with, highly toxic, and generally not for beginners, or even intermediate woodworkers.

So, for you, you have two broad categories of finishes to choose from. Film-forming finishes, and non-film-forming finishes. Finishes which build a film , such as polyurethane, are much more durable and protective, but much harder to apply. They also typically cannot be repaired without having to sand and recoat the entire piece. Coatings which do not build a film include things like waxes , hard oils, drying oils ( tung oil , and boiled linseed oil)

If you want to use a polyurethane, and want to apply it by hand, I would use an oil-based wipe on poly, simply for its ease of application. You should not be experiencing any runs down the side of your speaker, even with a wipe on poly. That's still a sign that you're applying it too heavy. You can also cut back on the dilution ratio, aiming for something like 25% dilution or 33% dilution instead of the 50% cut that is common. You can still buy mineral spirits from industrial vendors and more specialized paint stores.

If you're willing to spray, however, then you should use a water-based polyurethane instead, as they are higher-performing. A finish like Saman, Old Masters, General Finishes, or Renner, would all be great, and you can buy a quality little hvlp sprayer for about $150 bucks.

If it were up to me, though, I would be using Renners Hydro oil product. M305. It's an incredible product , because it can truly be brushed on , with no dilution, and nothing else mixed in, and yet will lay out perfectly flat, achieving a finish completely indistinguishable from spraying. It also does not require intercoat sanding, and can be touched up and repaired seamlessly. It's not as durable as a full polyurethane, but it is a hybrid finish , and is still much tougher than a non film forming finish.

All that being said, it's important to remember that this is just audio equipment, not a dining table. Realistically speaking, it doesn't actually need protection from anything , beyond what can be afforded by non film forming finishes. You would be totally fine to use something as simple as tung oil, which always comes out beautifully and is super easy to apply and reapply, or something like a hard wax product from osmo. So long as we're talking about the clears, they're stupid easy to apply.

I hope this all helps, let me know if you have any questions. And don't worry about the looks, all of these Coatings will come out looking more or less the same, depending on what sheen you choose.
 
What's this? A question on ASR that I am actually qualified to answer? Pinch me, I must be dreaming.

Hello, fellow Ontarian woodworker here. I have a lot of experience with fine-finishing, and it's always a challenge. Perhaps the hardest part is that everyone you ask has their own opinion, and no two opinions seem to overlap, in terms of what products to use, and which products look the best.

The truth of the matter, in regards to which finish looks the best, is, ironically enough, very similar to asking the question on ASR "which headphones sound the best?". There's no objective answer, and in reality, most of the visual differences that people claim exist between finishes, are all but imperceptible to 99.9% of people. When done properly you can make any coating look like any other coating. Well, maybe except for French polish.

Now first things first, waterborne finishes outperform oil-based finishes, and have for about 15 to 20 years now. The only people who still hold on to oil-based coatings are the old heads who refuse to admit that water-based products are better. That's not to say that every water-based product is great, only that the quality ones are better than what you can buy in terms of oil-based coatings now.

Note that I said oil-based though. These are separate from "hot solvent" products, such as true Nitrocellulose Lacquer, and catalyzed conversion varnishes, or anything with isocyanates. Hot solvent coatings are still the best, but they are nasty to work with, highly toxic, and generally not for beginners, or even intermediate woodworkers.

So, for you, you have two broad categories of finishes to choose from. Film-forming finishes, and non-film-forming finishes. Finishes which build a film , such as polyurethane, are much more durable and protective, but much harder to apply. They also typically cannot be repaired without having to sand and recoat the entire piece. Coatings which do not build a film include things like waxes , hard oils, drying oils ( tung oil , and boiled linseed oil)

If you want to use a polyurethane, and want to apply it by hand, I would use an oil-based wipe on poly, simply for its ease of application. You should not be experiencing any runs down the side of your speaker, even with a wipe on poly. That's still a sign that you're applying it too heavy. You can also cut back on the dilution ratio, aiming for something like 25% dilution or 33% dilution instead of the 50% cut that is common. You can still buy mineral spirits from industrial vendors and more specialized paint stores.

If you're willing to spray, however, then you should use a water-based polyurethane instead, as they are higher-performing. A finish like Saman, Old Masters, General Finishes, or Renner, would all be great, and you can buy a quality little hvlp sprayer for about $150 bucks.

If it were up to me, though, I would be using Renners Hydro oil product. M305. It's an incredible product , because it can truly be brushed on , with no dilution, and nothing else mixed in, and yet will lay out perfectly flat, achieving a finish completely indistinguishable from spraying. It also does not require intercoat sanding, and can be touched up and repaired seamlessly. It's not as durable as a full polyurethane, but it is a hybrid finish , and is still much tougher than a non film forming finish.

All that being said, it's important to remember that this is just audio equipment, not a dining table. Realistically speaking, it doesn't actually need protection from anything , beyond what can be afforded by non film forming finishes. You would be totally fine to use something as simple as tung oil, which always comes out beautifully and is super easy to apply and reapply, or something like a hard wax product from osmo. So long as we're talking about the clears, they're stupid easy to apply.

I hope this all helps, let me know if you have any questions. And don't worry about the looks, all of these Coatings will come out looking more or less the same, depending on what sheen you choose.
Hey, thanks for the write-up. I have many questions.

When you say water is better than oil, is that exclusively when using an HVLP or spray gun? Why would a water-based poly not be better than an oil in a wipe-on application? I can cut water-based poly with water, I believe. Anything oil-based needs to be cut with straight mineral spirits. Im willing to try water-based poly, but it's double the price, if not more.

"You can still buy mineral spirits from industrial vendors and more specialized paint stores." My Google skills have failed me. Can you provide some resources that the general public can walk in and purchase or at least order online without needing a specialized account.

Re: Renner m305 cannot find it available to the public.
 
So originally, oil-based coatings were the best products out there for the general consumer. However, as Environmental Protection laws started to tighten, manufacturers had to remove certain compounds from their products. This started to decrease the quality of these coatings. At the same time, there was economic incentive to develop better water-based coatings , as the environmental regulations were only going to continue to tighten in the future, and the stuff that made oil-based coatings good (linseed oil) was becoming more expensive. So for a time, it wasnt so much that water-based coatings were superior overall, only that they were much better than any oil-based coating you could buy, because the oil-based coatings had been so cut down. They're just a shadow of their former selves, and don't work all that well.

Now, though, it's been another 20 or so years since those oil based coatings started to really get cut down. And it's been 20 years since R&D has all but stopped on oil based coatings. Most manufacturers, like Benjamin moore, do not have an R&D department for oil-based Coatings anymore. The few oil-based products they still sell haven't seen any changes or reformulation in over a decade (per a Benjamin moor technical Rep). All of the chemical engineering advancements in coatings have been in the water-based space (apart from the industrial grade hot solvent products), and so now, in many regards, water-based coatings really do outlast the oil-based coatings of yesteryear, even at their prime.

The only difference that still exists with most water-based coatings is that they dry much faster than oil-based ones , as water evaporates much more quickly than mineral spirits. In some regards this is great for production , but in other regards it makes the paint much less forgiving of application error, as it dries so quickly that it's not able to level out as well, and as much more likely to show brush marks. There's work arounds for this, such as adding extender-retarders , but overall , water-based coatings really want to be sprayed. There's also a few niche applications where oil-based products just work better, such as stain-blocking.

This is also why water-based wipe on poly doesn't really exist - it dries too fast. So, if you're going to be applying these coatings by hand, the best way to ensure a streak-free, brush-mark-free finish , is to use a wipe on poly, which only really works in an oil-based formulation. Either that or find a source of Renner m305 Hydro oil. Renner products are professional grade, and it's what the entire industry uses for things like kitchen cabinets and fine finishing and millwork. As such, you can only find it at a few professional distributors, like Colour X. Oh, and it's expensive. A gallon of hydro oil is something like $115.

If you are able to or willing to purchase a sprayer, then you can use pretty much any coating out there, including all of the excellent water-based polys, such as the aforementioned Saman, General Finishes, Old Masters, etc. Lee Valley sells a great little hvlp sprayer for such tasks.

As for mineral spirits, Noah's marine supplies, masterfinishing.ca, truenorthhub.ca, several industrial suppliers, and many paint shops if you put in a special order.
 
Last edited:
So originally, oil-based coatings were the best products out there for the general consumer. However, as Environmental Protection laws started to tighten, manufacturers had to remove certain compounds from their products. This started to decrease the quality of these coatings. At the same time, there was economic incentive to develop better water-based coatings , as the environmental regulations were only going to continue to tighten in the future, and the stuff that made oil-based coatings good (linseed oil) was becoming more expensive. So for a time, it wasnt so much that water-based coatings were superior overall, only that they were much better than any oil-based coating you could buy, because the oil-based coatings had been so cut down. They're just a shadow of their former selves, and don't work all that well.

Now, though, it's been another 20 or so years since those oil based coatings started to really get cut down. And it's been 20 years since R&D has all but stopped on oil based coatings. Most manufacturers, like Benjamin moore, do not have an R&D department for oil-based Coatings anymore. The few oil-based products they still sell haven't seen any changes or reformulation in over a decade (per a Benjamin moor technical Rep). All of the chemical engineering advancements in coatings have been in the water-based space (apart from the industrial grade hot solvent products), and so now, in many regards, water-based coatings really do outlast the oil-based coatings of yesteryear, even at their prime.

The only difference that still exists with most water-based coatings is that they dry much faster than oil-based ones , as water evaporates much more quickly than mineral spirits. In some regards this is great for production , but in other regards it makes the paint much less forgiving of application error, as it dries so quickly that it's not able to level out as well, and as much more likely to show brush marks. There's work arounds for this, such as adding extender-retarders , but overall , water-based coatings really want to be sprayed. There's also a few niche applications where oil-based products just work better, such as stain-blocking.

This is also why water-based wipe on poly doesn't really exist - it dries too fast. So, if you're going to be applying these coatings by hand, the best way to ensure a streak-free, brush-mark-free finish , is to use a wipe on poly, which only really works in an oil-based formulation. Either that or find a source of Renner m305 Hydro oil. Renner products are professional grade, and it's what the entire industry uses for things like kitchen cabinets and fine finishing and millwork. As such, you can only find it at a few professional distributors, like Colour X. Oh, and it's expensive. A gallon of hydro oil is something like $115.

If you are able to or willing to purchase a sprayer, then you can use pretty much any coating out there, including all of the excellent water-based polys, such as the aforementioned Saman, General Finishes, Old Masters, etc. Lee Valley sells a great little hvlp sprayer for such tasks.
I want to say the learning curve for using an hvlp or spray gun is pretty steep. Spray guns are relatively inexpensive, but compressors are not.

Do you have any experience with the cordless electric sprayers? I've seen some YouTube videos of people spraying their cars. Even some pros's using them, mind you, they have all the skills which I don't. Then again, it's also YouTube, and between editing, who knows what was actually done behind the scenes.

From what I'm reading, it sounds like I'm stuck with oil because I dont have the skill or equipment.

Edit: 115$ Canadian for a Gallon works out to 25$ a quart-ish/litre. That is by far the most affordable option available. Not sure of shelf life or how it stores, but Im very interested in finding this product now.

Edit 2: Insane to put an 8-inch cord on something. Lee Valley Tools. Then again, depending on the use case, people probably want a 10-50m cable, and an extension cable is the way to go.
1758828489909.png
 
Last edited:
I just use shellac because I know how to make it look nice. I sand to 1000, apply shellac with a stain pad, sand between coats, then just buff with steel wool. Can go from unfinished cabinet to several coats applied, sanded, buffed and ready to go in a day. Hate all the water based polys I tried. Don't care for how long oil poly smells and dry/cure time. When I apply shellac I can just do it in a room with a window open, pretty low VOC compared to a lot of stuff. Haven't tried a french polish or lacquers.

Shellac does go on thin though so might not be up your alley.

mupiEoQ.jpeg


22X3E1t.jpeg


cmNNCjH.jpeg
 
I want to say the learning curve for using an hvlp or spray gun is pretty steep. Spray guns are relatively inexpensive, but compressors are not.

Do you have any experience with the cordless electric sprayers? I've seen some YouTube videos of people spraying their cars. Even some pros's using them, mind you, they have all the skills which I don't. Then again, it's also YouTube, and between editing, who knows what was actually done behind the scenes.

From what I'm reading, it sounds like I'm stuck with oil because I dont have the skill or equipment.

Edit: 115$ Canadian for a Gallon works out to 25$ a quart-ish/litre. That is by far the most affordable option available. Not sure of shelf life or how it stores, but Im very interested in finding this product now.

Edit 2: Insane to put an 8-inch cord on something. Lee Valley Tools. Then again, depending on the use case, people probably want a 10-50m cable, and an extension cable is the way to go. View attachment 478386

Learning to spray is several orders of magnitude easier than learning how to brush well. Toss your paint in the sprayer, let 'er rip, and like 80% of the time , you end up with a good result. Or, at least, you end up with a result as good as what you would have gotten if you brushed or rolled. Getting that perfect sprayed finish, free of any texture or orange peel, is usually just a matter of using the right tip size, slightly thinning the paint, using good products, and having good spray form.

I've sprayed Saman waterborne clear out of that gun and it comes out more or less perfect, with no modifications. Just remember it's always better to underspray than overspray, and get drips. And yeah it's $115 a gallon, but that's with a contractor discount, and it's the smallest size they make. No quarts.

But, if it were my speaker, I'd just slap three coats of tung oil on with a cloth, and call it a day.
 
Back
Top Bottom