Sparkos OP Amps Causing Fatigue

[4D_Coaxial_Cube]

I purchased an Apollon NC 500 Dual Mono amp in 2023 and decided to try rolling the Sparkos OP amps into it to see if they added any sonic benefit. I believe they do change the sound signature slightly. I started noticing that the amplifier was fatiguing for me shortly after but didnt assume it was the new OP Amps given how they performed when Amir tested them. I ended up getting so tired of the fatigue that I decided to buy a class AB power amp.

I honestly was starting to think that somehow I had some issue with audio processing and that it was just causing sensory overload that my capabilities couldnt handle. The symptoms that I read about with sensory overload lined up. It was causing anxiety and stress and made me pretty anxious until I would turn down or off. I tried a lot of things, turning down the gain on the back, a heavily tilted EQ curve to roll off the highs (which worked somewhat.) I ended up putting it on a shelf for around a year and a half, then a few months ago I put it back in the rack to see what I thought of it. The fatigue came right back. so back to the shelf it went with disappointment... I did in fact want to sell the heavier more expensive AB power amp.

Last week I started listing things to sell to have more money for the holidays and as I got it from the shelf it was on, I thought... the one thing I had not done was try removing the OP amps and replacing with the originals. So I got out my ratcheting multibit driver and flipped them out and plugged it back up.

The fatigue did not set in. I went to some semi noisier Aphex Twin tracks that really gave me problems before and amazingly it was totally fine. I was so cautious and I waited several songs to really juice it and get the decibels up there. I was really excited to not have excruciating ear pain after a song or two. I ended up listening for a while at around 85 to 90 db taking 15 to 20 minute breaks here and there.

There was another variable - I had put a rug down since the last time I gave the amp a shot, so today I decided to try the Sparkos again. Within a couple of songs the fatigue appeared, again. I thought I was frippin muh griddles so I put the ones supplied with the amp back in and it didnt return. I tried one more run with the Sparkos and it came back, so they are out and I guess I will sell them.

I realize it is probably pointless to ask such a large question, but I am curious, now. Is there any thing about the Sparkos measurements that stand out as to why this would be the case?

 

[olds1959special]

Try LM4562NA. That's what I'm using now in my Aiyima A70 mono amps. I've always found Sparkos SS3602 to be a little bright and I think Amir found some type of distortion above audible frequencies with them in the Fosi P4. I believe we can perceive above 20k even if we aren't aware of it.

 

[DVDdoug]

Is there any thing about the Sparkos measurements that stand out as to why this would be the case?

No.

But there's no issue going back to the original.

I believe they do change the sound signature slightly. I started noticing that the amplifier was fatiguing for me shortly after

I'm highly-skeptical without proper blind testing, both for the sound and the fatigue. ...And of course one person might get fatigued but not another.

What is a blind ABX test?.
Controlled Audio Blind Listening Tests

P.S.
Personally, I have more faith in op-amp chips. But in this application the op-amp doesn't have much, if any, difference anyway. if you are making a high-gain phono preamp or microphone preamp you want low noise because the noise gets amplified.

 

[JSmith]

I think Amir found some type of distortion above audible frequencies with them in the Fosi P4.

Ay?

Op-amp Rolling Using Sparkos on Fosi V3 Mono

This is a study of measured differences if one swaps up the TI NE5532p dual IC op-amp in a Fosi V3 Mono amplifier with a "discrete" opamp from Sparkos. It is a test requested in the youtube comments of my video test of the same using Douk A5 and Sonic Imagery op-amp. The Sparkos SS3602 retails...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Sparkos SS3602 Opamp Rolling In Fosi P4

This is a detailed measurements of effect of swapping the stock NE5532P op-amp in Fosi P4 preamplifier with Sparkos SS3602 "discrete" opamp. The SS3602 costs US $79.80 and the NE5532P, US $0.47. Swapping opamps in P4 is more challenging due to back connectors/switches that need to be...

www.audiosciencereview.com

JSmith

 

[wwenze]

I realize it is probably pointless to ask such a large question, but I am curious, now. Is there any thing about the Sparkos measurements that stand out as to why this would be the case?

Fatigue usually means either incorrect frequency response / phase or a high amount of distortion. The former usually cannot occur with op-amp swap, so the latter is more likely.

A wrong op-amp in the wrong place can result in oscillation which causes modulation distortion. Measurements only account for one scenario. A product may work with other products 90% of the time but goes horrible wrong with other 10%. This is why engineers spend time with integration testing / qualification testing; the seller needs to make sure their products work with as many customers as possible, while the buyer needs to make sure the product works with theirs. For example Nvidia and Intel CPUs, they may look worse than AMD in price/performance, but many corporate-specific software and hardware fail to work with AMD products for one reason or another.

So to know whether your Sparkos is doing anything or if you need the Sparkos in the first place, you should perform your own measurements before and after.

And finally, they sound bright because they are called "Sparkos" which affects you subconsciously.

 

[4D_Coaxial_Cube]

Try LM4562NA. That's what I'm using now in my Aiyima A70 mono amps. I've always found Sparkos SS3602 to be a little bright and I think Amir found some type of distortion above audible frequencies with them in the Fosi P4. I believe we can perceive above 20k even if we aren't aware of it.

I can not hear test tones above around 15.5k to maybe 16k, but I set a steep 48db slope high pass for my mains to rule out ultrasonic energy causing fatigue with a NOS DAC. I have an ultra scientific way of telling if it is on or off..I open miniDSP console and put the mouse cursor over the activate/deactivate button and close my eyes and click it multiple times as fast I can without counting then slowly click between them with my eyes closed. I can tell them apart and always know which is which. Kidding about it being scientific of course. I just tried it several times to see if I could possibly tell after seeing I cant hear test tones above 16k at best.

I doubt I will try other OP amps after this experience. If anything I am interested in other class D amps now that I know the topology doesnt hurt my ears. GaN seem interesting. I may give Orchard Audio a go when sell the big heavy AB.

 

[4D_Coaxial_Cube]

Fatigue usually means either incorrect frequency response / phase or a high amount of distortion. The former usually cannot occur with op-amp swap, so the latter is more likely.

A wrong op-amp in the wrong place can result in oscillation which causes modulation distortion. Measurements only account for one scenario. A product may work with other products 90% of the time but goes horrible wrong with other 10%. This is why engineers spend time with integration testing / qualification testing; the seller needs to make sure their products work with as many customers as possible, while the buyer needs to make sure the product works with theirs. For example Nvidia and Intel CPUs, they may look worse than AMD in price/performance, but many corporate-specific software and hardware fail to work with AMD products for one reason or another.

So to know whether your Sparkos is doing anything or if you need the Sparkos in the first place, you should perform your own measurements before and after.

And finally, they sound bright because they are called "Sparkos" which affects you subconsciously.

Is the distortion that Amir picked up on when analyzing them audible? I contacted the Sparkos weirdo to make sure I got the right ones. Im pretty sure its the same models that Apollon puts in when people pay for such.

 

[JSmith]

Im pretty sure its the same models that Apollon puts in when people pay for such.

@Apollon Audio offer the SS2590 Pro as an "upgrade".

I doubt I will try other OP amps after this experience.

Great idea.


JSmith

 

[DVDdoug]

GaN seem interesting.

Yes... but so far GaN amplifiers don't seem to necessarily measure better, or sound better. That's not surprising since good amplifiers are already better than human hearing and class-D MOSFET amplifiers are already nearly 100% energy efficient.

Is the distortion that Amir picked up on when analyzing them audible?

No. Click the link above to the review:

From audibility it means nothing but does show that the discrete op-amp is not as good as our bargain standard part...

Sparkos has higher distortion spikes but since they are ultrasonic and at any rate, very low amplitude, they are of no audible consequence...

these expensive opamps either show no measurable effect, or what they show is negligible but not better. Subjective, uncontrolled listening tests of benefit are proof that we perceive differences that are not there...

I don't recommend you modify any audio device. If they perform excellently already, please leave well enough alone. If your system is causing fatigue, has high noise floor, shrunk soundstage, etc. then you should question how you arrived at it in the first place!

 

[MAB]

This is true, many people find Sparkos OpAmps to be tedious, resulting in fatigue.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

Fatigue is such a psychological thing affected by mood, tiredness, stress etc. I often think it's likely to be a consequence of too much exposure to loud music.

 

[Mart68]

Fatigue is such a psychological thing affected by mood, tiredness, stress etc. I often think it's likely to be a consequence of too much exposure to loud music.

And straining to hear differences between op amps?

 

[transformer-coupled]

I purchased an Apollon NC 500 Dual Mono amp in 2023 and decided to try rolling the Sparkos OP amps into it to see if they added any sonic benefit. I believe they do change the sound signature slightly. I started noticing that the amplifier was fatiguing for me shortly after but didnt assume it was the new OP Amps given how they performed when Amir tested them. I ended up getting so tired of the fatigue that I decided to buy a class AB power amp.

I honestly was starting to think that somehow I had some issue with audio processing and that it was just causing sensory overload that my capabilities couldnt handle. The symptoms that I read about with sensory overload lined up. It was causing anxiety and stress and made me pretty anxious until I would turn down or off. I tried a lot of things, turning down the gain on the back, a heavily tilted EQ curve to roll off the highs (which worked somewhat.) I ended up putting it on a shelf for around a year and a half, then a few months ago I put it back in the rack to see what I thought of it. The fatigue came right back. so back to the shelf it went with disappointment... I did in fact want to sell the heavier more expensive AB power amp.

Last week I started listing things to sell to have more money for the holidays and as I got it from the shelf it was on, I thought... the one thing I had not done was try removing the OP amps and replacing with the originals. So I got out my ratcheting multibit driver and flipped them out and plugged it back up.

The fatigue did not set in. I went to some semi noisier Aphex Twin tracks that really gave me problems before and amazingly it was totally fine. I was so cautious and I waited several songs to really juice it and get the decibels up there. I was really excited to not have excruciating ear pain after a song or two. I ended up listening for a while at around 85 to 90 db taking 15 to 20 minute breaks here and there.

There was another variable - I had put a rug down since the last time I gave the amp a shot, so today I decided to try the Sparkos again. Within a couple of songs the fatigue appeared, again. I thought I was frippin muh griddles so I put the ones supplied with the amp back in and it didnt return. I tried one more run with the Sparkos and it came back, so they are out and I guess I will sell them.

I realize it is probably pointless to ask such a large question, but I am curious, now. Is there any thing about the Sparkos measurements that stand out as to why this would be the case?

Good movement to use class ab amp... What model of power amp you are using? I suggest you also try a tube preamp or better a transformer volume control based preamp (passive with transformers instead resistors) and a R-2R kind DAC as Denafrips. Also Canare microphone cable sounds warmer because of high capacitance l-4e5c. Said this I'm using all of mentioned except class ab amp , I'm still enjoying my PURIFI 1et400a amplifier but because I think is more "digestive" to ears even being class D because is a Cymax Digital of SE series using full linear power supply. Is not perfect, I will try that "shake oil" (like my all shake oil post right right our strict pure audio scientist doctors friends in this forum? I love you, because you hear music not with ears but with a thd analyzer of rolling the chip op-amp default by a discreet op-amps, because my "stupid snake oil audiophool self learnings" tell to me that most of time , discreet circuit sounds with less audio fatigue than ic chip based ones.
Salud y buena música

 

[RexrothPigeon]

hear music not with ears but with a thd analyzer

You, on the other hand, hear music not with ears but with eyes and biases. If you want to hear with your ears, do controlled blind tests. That's the only way to make sure you're assessing with your ears alone. It's not a matter of willpower or opinion, just how we're wired.