Source DSP + DSP in active speakers

[RosalieTheDog]

I have a basic question on the combination of DSP in the source (Dirac, PEQ via Equalizer APO , ...) and DSP built-in in active speakers, like dip switches accomodating various speaker positions or master tunings of hifi active speakers.

What is the good practice here? Should you first put the dip switches appropriate to the position of the speakers, and then apply further DSP on the source (Dirac, PEQ, ...), or should you leave the dip switches in the 'neutral/free standing' position and solve all problems before input?

Perhaps none of this matters that much, but I'd like to hear your thoughts.

 

[ZolaIII]

If you can skip the ADC to such speakers as they usually perform considerably worse than DAC's in such and do the DSP-ing in higher precision (mathematical FP and back on integer to DAC) to the source rest is the question of what is more handy for you to do.

 

[Keith_W]

With DSP, there is (1) speaker correction and (2) room correction.

Speakers with built-in DSP have speaker correction ONLY and are thus unaware of the environment they are in. Some of these speakers, such as Genelec, have a back panel that looks like this:

You can think of this as a very crude form of room correction. It is far better to apply DSP upstream for room correction. In theory, it does not really matter where you leave those dip switches, as long as you don't touch them after you have finished the DSP correction process.

 

[RosalieTheDog]

You can think of this as a very crude form of room correction. It is far better to apply DSP upstream for room correction. In theory, it does not really matter where you leave those dip switches, as long as you don't touch them after you have finished the DSP correction process.

Thank you, that is what I thought. I was probably overthinking it.

 

[ZolaIII]

Thank you, that is what I thought. I was probably overthinking it.

Well there are and higher tire monitors or sub's + monitors with measurement microphone and room correction for quality some time (from Tools JBL days). Importantly you want flexibility from DSP and high performance CPU cores is best you can get and preferably still on the X64 side regarding as possibly widest compatibility you can get. DAW simply wins nowadays.

 

[dedobot]

Just powered ,amp per driver crossover-less multi chanel speakers and central console with all of the electronics looks like the best approach. But it won't be cheap .

 

[Chr1]

Possibly, but it will also be the most complex and difficult to get right.
Active speakers with source/computer/DAW based DSP seems like the best compromise to me.

 

[Sigberg Audio]

With DSP, there is (1) speaker correction and (2) room correction.

Speakers with built-in DSP have speaker correction ONLY and are thus unaware of the environment they are in.

This is a bit imprecise, there are any number of active speakers with built-in PEQ, which can be used for room correction as well.

 

[Esprit]

Eg: Genelec SAM.

 

[MKR]

This is a bit imprecise, there are any number of active speakers with built-in PEQ, which can be used for room correction as well.

This is correct in fact … many are not aware, as Hypex doesn’t seem to advertise it so much (they should), but you can do room EQ with the Fusion products.

 

[hashhar]

I had the exact same question so happy to see it answered.

So if I apply PEQ/DSP on the source (PC) or pre-amp (wiim ultra for example) then does it matter whether I feed the digital active speakers (Neumanns, Genelecs, etc.) with a digital input (speakers as DAC) or an analog input (preamp as DAC)?

Also if I feed analog input to Genelec SAM/Neumanns do they still perform a A-D-A conversion? Can I somehow tell the speakers to not perform a conversion to digital since source is already analog?

 

[Sigberg Audio]

I had the exact same question so happy to see it answered.

So if I apply PEQ/DSP on the source (PC) or pre-amp (wiim ultra for example) then does it matter whether I feed the digital active speakers (Neumanns, Genelecs, etc.) with a digital input (speakers as DAC) or an analog input (preamp as DAC)?

Not really.

Also if I feed analog input to Genelec SAM/Neumanns do they still perform a A-D-A conversion? Can I somehow tell the speakers to not perform a conversion to digital since source is already analog?

This will severely limit your options in speakers. A better approach would be to accept the AD/DA conversion.

 

[hashhar]

This will severely limit your options in speakers. A better approach would be to accept the AD/DA conversion.

Can you elaborate on this? Do you mean to point to studio monitors which take only analog inputs and passive bookshelves as the options?

i.e. Something like Genelec 8030c?

 

[ZolaIII]

Can you elaborate on this? Do you mean to point to studio monitors which take only analog inputs and passive bookshelves as the options?

i.e. Something like Genelec 8030c?

No they do ADC-DSP-DAC and you can't cut the shortcut as crossovers are digitally done. Pasive crossovers can be done almost as good (with applied limitations) but such are rare. You can insert DSP with or without ADC and to as much as you need chenels (ADC/DAC) and to the requirements.

 

[hashhar]

Thanks for explaining. I'll just stop worrying. Almost sure I wouldn't hear a difference either way.

 

[ZolaIII]

Thanks for explaining. I'll just stop worrying. Almost sure I wouldn't hear a difference either way.

??? Above 80 dB SINAD you probably won't. How good are crossovers you will hear along with every other design choice. And you can also mitigate some and improve almost any with external DSP. How much depends how crazy you are (crossovers, FR, time domain, decay times, Fs, Fbox, Froom, phase...).

 

[Sigberg Audio]

Can you elaborate on this? Do you mean to point to studio monitors which take only analog inputs and passive bookshelves as the options?

i.e. Something like Genelec 8030c?

Most active speakers beyond the very cheapest employ DSP / digital crossovers, which means they will do AD/DA if you use the analog inputs. So if you want to avoid this you will limit the available speakers to choose from.

 

[Chr1]

Not necessarily true.

My Neumann KH310s don't have built in DSP and wouldn't say that they were cheap exactly.
Happy to use DSP upstream and skip the extra A-D, D-A conversations personally.

(Reckon I got a good deal at just over 3k, but did wish they were cheaper!)

 

[Berwhale]

I have iLoud MTMs (1st gen) which have DSP and their own measurement mic for setup. I also have a PC with REW and a UMIK-1.

Before I rebuilt my study, one of the MTMs was in a corner, close to the front wall. The other sat in front of a 1m deep bay window. My solution to this asymmetry was to use the built-in measurement and calibration for each MTM (to equalize them) and then measure both MTMs together with REW/UMIK-1 using the moving microphone method to get a good average at the listening position. The correction calculated in REW was then applied system-wide using PEACE/EAPO. This worked well for me.

In my new setup, both MTMs are equidistant from the front and side walls. The MTMs have been calibrated in this position, but I should probably turn this off and redo it all with REW.

 

[Sigberg Audio]

Not necessarily true.

My Neumann KH310s don't have built in DSP and wouldn't say that they were cheap exactly.
Happy to use DSP upstream and skip the extra A-D, D-A conversations personally.

(Reckon I got a good deal at just over 3k, but did wish they were cheaper!)

"Most active speakers beyond the very cheapest employ DSP / digital crossovers". I think this is still true.