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SoundStage’s review of Dutch&Dutch’s 8C

Soniclife

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#4
Great FR measurements, except the ~9dB dip at approx 60Hz?
I think that's measurement error, or complication from measuring in an anehonic chamber. The rear facing bass units are expected to have a wall behind them, but they effectively don't in a chamber. Look at the bit under the "Additional measurement to capture output of woofers", I assume this is the speakers turned around to face the mic. This aspect of the measurements was interesting.
 

Purité Audio

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#5
That is explained in the measurement preamble, speakers measured in an anechoic chamber , the 8Cs have two rear facing woofers, there is an additional graph showing their output.
Keith
 

Music1969

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#6
there is an additional graph showing their output.
I saw the preamble and saw the measurements with the speakers turned but I forgot that the key is as @Soniclife reminded me - these speakers are designed to perform better closer to the rear wall.

I remember seeing an interview with the engineer where he said the speakers couple with the wall, so closer is better than further.
 

Purité Audio

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#7
All speakers ‘should’ be placed close to walls to avoid cancellation, but ‘most’ speakers aren’t adjustable.
Keith
 

dc655321

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#8
All speakers ‘should’ be placed close to walls to avoid cancellation, but ‘most’ speakers aren’t adjustable.
Keith
I would think that moving conventional speakers closer to the front wall would shift the "cancellation" to higher frequencies (shorter wavelengths), hence becoming more easily discernible.

The 8C can get away with this because the mid-range has a cardioid field (front wall reflections 15-20dB down from direct sound) and the subs are designed for boundary coupling (mid and tweeter delayed appropriately, of course).
 
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#10
I would think that moving conventional speakers closer to the front wall would shift the "cancellation" to higher frequencies (shorter wavelengths), hence becoming more easily discernible.
OTOH, HF reflections are more easily absorbed with reasonably sized panels. The cardioid pattern works, but it's not the only solution.
 

Purité Audio

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#11
HF generally has a pretty narrow dispersion, you don’t really want to be cancelling bass, hence soffit mounting in studios.
Keith
 
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#12
My mistake, I should NOT have written "HF" to mean "higher frequencies." Let me try again.

Speakers placed well clear of walls can have interference issues at low frequencies, say below 100Hz. Absorbing such wavelengths requires thick panels, and they take even more space when mounted with an air gap to the wall. Move the speakers closer to the wall(s), and you no longer need to absorb these low frequencies, because reflections remain in phase with direct sound at such long wavelengths. Absorbing reflections from ~200Hz to baffle-step/beaming (usually >500Hz) requires much less damping material & space.

IOW, exactly what D&D & Kii recommend regarding the rear wall, except using absorption with non-cardioid speakers.
 

Music1969

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#14
NRC measurements show dip around 50Hz with nearly all speakers. A BR speaker with backside port will have a deep dip around tuning frequency, in anechoic chamber.
https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16&Itemid=140

They have measurements of many subs, headpones and amps too
GoldenEar Triton speakers have powered subwoofers built-in and don't have this dip which D&D 8C have at approx 60Hz...

Triton Reference:
https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/i...&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=153

and

Triton One:
https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/i...&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=153
 

restorer-john

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#16
So the speakers must be connected to the internet to set them up? Don't they just have an IP address you can directly access on your LAN to set up?

"The Network Ethernet input is self-explanatory (the 8c has no Wi-Fi adapter), and is required only to control the 8c’s settings, which is done through a web-based app accessed through the D&D website."

Here again is the residual noise issue that plagues active speakers with Class D and DSP. They claim a >118dB S/N and yet hiss was 'easily' heard...

"it produces its own noise -- not much, but the review samples weren’t dead quiet. With an ear to a tweeter I could easily hear some hiss, but no hum when I moved that ear down to the midrange and woofers. This was more noise than one of my B&W 705 S2 speakers produces when connected to my very quiet McIntosh Laboratory MC302 power amp. In fact, the MC302 is so quiet that I can easily hear the noise contributed by my McIntosh C47 preamp when I turn it on (again, with an ear to a tweeter). Not so with the 8c -- whether the C47 was on or off didn’t change the amount of noise produced by the 8c’s tweeter. Clearly, the 8c’s own noise was the main contributor to the overall level of noise I heard through these speakers"

At the price of these speakers, they should be dead quiet, like the thousands of high performance amplifiers sold both now, and in the past. Nobody can exploit the full dynamic range of digital where the low level detail drops into a high residual noise floor, especially at close range listening and in smaller rooms.
 
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Kal Rubinson

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#17
Please note: "I would like to have fed the 8c a digital signal, but I lacked the required AES/EBU 110-ohm XLR interconnect."
One can avoid the A/D processing, good as it may be, by using the AES3 or the ethernet inputs.
 

PierreV

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#18
At the price of these speakers, they should be dead quiet, like the thousands of high performance amplifiers sold both now, and in the past. Nobody can exploit the full dynamic range of digital where the low level detail drops into a high residual noise floor, especially at close range listening and in smaller rooms.
But... but the mandatory wandering wife likes them!

At this point, we should be thankful that high-end audio gear reviews mostly happen in countries where polygamy isn't legal.
 
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