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Sound United U 30 Update (Denon X3800H / X4800H / A1H, Marantz Cinema 50 / 40 / AV 10)

enricoclaudio

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Here it is:

Speakers is Revel M106.

Bedroom.jpg
 

JAJDACT

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I'm interested in which one follows the speakers natural in room response better.
 
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enricoclaudio

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Did you edit either target curve? The Audyssey curve is more linear. Dirac has a slight smile curve. It's definitely part of the reason you are hearing such a big difference.
I did not edit the target curves at all. Standard curves on both, Dirac and Audyssey. The purpose of this comparison was to find which room EQ does a better job without doing any tweaking or changes to their target curves. At least for me, Dirac did a better job in my room and sounds more natural to my ears.
 

JAJDACT

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I did not edit the target curves at all. Standard curves on both, Dirac and Audyssey. The purpose of this comparison was to find which room EQ does a better job without doing any tweaking or changes to their target curves. At least for me, Dirac did a better job in my room and sounds more natural to my ears.
Do you have a measurement with no eq to compare?
 

PHD

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Get it, try it and judge yourself. I’m not that kind of person who is going to write fancy and audio fools words to convince others. I did what everyone that owns a X3800H/X4800H should do, try it. If you like it like me, then be happy, otherwise you have 30 days to ask for a refund. Meanwhile I’m here listening to music while biking ‍♂️ indoors over Watopia with my X4800H running Dirac Live with a big smile in my face and ZERO regrets about purchasing the Dirac license.
I've been experiencing Dirac and Audyssey on a friend's X3800H. The Dirac results are definitely better or different (less dynamic/aggressive sounding, but tighter and revealing more musical detail and more spaciousness). But when compared to Audyssey with DEQ on, the immediate vibe you'll get is that Audyssey sounds better (louder and more dynamic with deeper bass/impact and higher treble). It's not a night and day as you describe.
 

snickers

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Are there any known plans to make it possible to run DIRAC + Dynamic EQ together?
If I remember right, I read somewhere that D/M will be one of the first AVR's with a function like this running together with DIRAC...
When this would come, then it would be a no-brainer for me to buy one.
 

tobby

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Long time reader but first post :)

The Audyssey curve is more linear. Dirac has a slight smile curve. It's definitely part of the reason you are hearing such a big difference.
Yes that's definitely a visible difference and may increase the "fun" when listening while being non linear. But there's something more totally unmentioned: Impulse correction. Dirac does it, Audyssey not, or maybe only as a sideeffect. So this may be the reason why Dirac sound's better to him, too.

My X4800H arrived at saturday but didn't have any time to install it, yet. Hope to do it this weekend and then I will compare Audyssey and Dirac, too - with my ears and with my UMIK-2 (calibrated by CSL). :)

One question: Do you use the 0°, 45° or 90° calibration when calibrating setups with height or ceiling speakers? 0° doesn't make sense since you could only point at the fronts. But 90° doesn't make sense, either, because this will point directly to the ceiling speakers. My thought is to use the 45° file and let the microphone point 45° upwards. This still has an angle error when looking at the front heights (the angle will be something between 0-45° in reality, depending on the room and the distance of the listening position in relation to the speaker position) and also when looking at the ceiling speakers at the back (maybe >45°). But I think this is still the best. What do you think? Best approach or fallacy?
 

enricoclaudio

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Only 90 degrees can be used with Dirac Live.
 

just1n

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Are there any known plans to make it possible to run DIRAC + Dynamic EQ together?
If I remember right, I read somewhere that D/M will be one of the first AVR's with a function like this running together with DIRAC...
When this would come, then it would be a no-brainer for me to buy one.
Does not sounds like that will happen.

 
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Meanwhile, if you have a miniDSP 2x4 HD, just time align your subwoofers with the miniDSP and show them to Dirac or Audyssey as one subwoofer and you will get perfect integration with Dirac or Audyssey. I have been doing this for years already and it works perfectly, in fact, many find this solution bringing better results than DLBC. Honestly, I have no intention to purchase DLBC now or in the future when becomes available.
I'm doing the same with my Onkyo's AccuEQ and two subwoofers, optimizing with Multi Sub Optimizer software for Windows. But honestly, it's a clunky not elegant and, most of all, needing a lot of knowledge solution. If I had DLBC-multi I could just hook up everything to the AVR and let it do its magic. Not to mention all the additional connections, A/D and D/A conversions this setup forces (that can cause degradation, noise or even fault).
But what the mini-DSP can do is just optimize the subs (seat to seat variance and flat response), integration with the other speakers (especially in the crossover region, the most delicate) is still up to the AVR room-correction and Dirac without DLBC just doesn't do that AFAIK.
 

DutchJay

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Does anyone know if you can try dirac and get your money back if it doesn't improve your set up? Read somewhere that you can try for 30 days, but can't find it anywhere on the dirac website....
 

enricoclaudio

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That's the way Dirac and REW work when taking room measurements. If you are measuring the room, you use 90 degrees file and point the mic upwards. If you are measuring a speaker near field, then you use 0 degrees and point the mic to the speaker. Same as you do when calibrating with Audyssey, mic points to the ceiling.
 

PHD

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Does anyone know if you can try dirac and get your money back if it doesn't improve your set up? Read somewhere that you can try for 30 days, but can't find it anywhere on the dirac website....
You can't/ Dirac trial is available only for the useless PC suite which can process up to 8 pcm channels and does not support Dolby/DTS formats
 

tobby

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It's also very stupid to point the mic at only one of the 11 speakers in a 7.1.4 setup.

That's why my idea was to use 45° (and the 45° calibration file) - because when pointing the microphone to the ceiling and using the 90° calibration, the mic will point more or less directly (0°) at the rear ceiling speakers. But maybe there is my fallacy...
 

enricoclaudio

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It's also very stupid to point the mic at only one of the 11 speakers in a 7.1.4 setup.

Well, to be fair, the real explanation is that these mics are omnidirectional so pointing them to the ceiling they get sound waves from everywhere. Also, that's the way miniDSP calibrate them. CLS goes the extra mile and provide you with 0 and 45 degrees files but honestly, in 10 years taking measurements, I have never used those files, only 90 degrees.
 

enricoclaudio

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Does anyone know if you can try dirac and get your money back if it doesn't improve your set up? Read somewhere that you can try for 30 days, but can't find it anywhere on the dirac website....

I also read somewhere that you had 30 days trial and I even voiced it out but looks like that is not the case according to Dirac EULA:

3. Refunds. To be eligible for a limited refund, you (i) must have acquired a license to the Software from Dirac or from an authorized distributor; and (ii) must not have used the Software; (iii) must provide proof of payment for the Software; within thirty (30) calendar days of your receipt of the Software. ACQUISITIONS OF LICENSES TO SOFTWARE ARE NON-REFUNDABLE FOLLOWING THE EXPIRATION OF THE 30-DAY PERIOD AND IN THE EVENT THAT THE SOFTWARE HAS BEEN USED. SHIPPING CHARGES AND CREDIT CARD FEES ARE NON-REFUNDABLE.
 

multisport4me

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I also read somewhere that you had 30 days trial and I even voiced it out but looks like that is not the case according to Dirac EULA:

3. Refunds. To be eligible for a limited refund, you (i) must have acquired a license to the Software from Dirac or from an authorized distributor; and (ii) must not have used the Software; (iii) must provide proof of payment for the Software; within thirty (30) calendar days of your receipt of the Software. ACQUISITIONS OF LICENSES TO SOFTWARE ARE NON-REFUNDABLE FOLLOWING THE EXPIRATION OF THE 30-DAY PERIOD AND IN THE EVENT THAT THE SOFTWARE HAS BEEN USED. SHIPPING CHARGES AND CREDIT CARD FEES ARE NON-REFUNDABLE.

I'm trying to think of a use case whereby someone could take advantage of the "limited refund" and I'm hard pressed to think of more than...maybe, one. You buy the license while your AVP/AVR is still sitting in the box and then decide - for whatever reasons - you're returning the AVP/AVR and as such, no longer need the Dirac Live license. As long as you are within 30 days of that decision, then and only then can you request/receive a full refund.

So yea....limited is an understatement. Useless return period would be more accurate.

Thankfully, I'm loving Dirac and don't have to thread that needle above trying to get a refund.
 
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