Sound United U 30 Update (Denon X3800H / X4800H / A1H, Marantz Cinema 50 / 40 / AV 10)

[ThELiZ]

Is Dirac Live worth using over Audyssey without DLBC of using 2 subs? How does Dirac Live handle subs without bass control function?

 

[peng]

Is Dirac Live worth using over Audyssey without DLBC of using 2 subs? How does Dirac Live handle subs without bass control function?

I don't know exactly how they do it without DLBC, but I did compare the results:

Without it, I got that suck out in the 40-75 Hz range. DLBC improved it a lot but not enough, actually created a second suck out. With some manual tweaking, the suck out seems not too bad. That's just my room/subs, others may have better, or worse results.

 

[Music707]

I checked this last night. While using a Dirac cal on Speaker Preset 2 I was easily able to pick either Stereo or simply push Direct (playing an 2-channel source) and the Dirac filter is still being used on both modes. I toggled between DD, DTS and Direct with no issues - Dirac is in fact still applied in stereo/2-channel direct modes.

Thank you very much for verifying. Seems I was too sceptic and I am glad that I was wrong. Thanks also to @enricoclaudio for the config photo that in the meantime led me to take a closer look at the manual and some videos. Great to find helping hands! To avoid unnecessary confusion I will edit my former posts.

 

[multisport4me]

I wish they'd hurry up with DLBC. For me that's a gate to upgrading as I'm not going to bother buying until it's ready (in case the next gen product is out by then or they change their mind lol)

It's possible they need to work with Dirac on the unique "Directional Bass" feature D&M introduced so it is a slightly customized implementation of DLBC. I don't think any other manufacturers have this, do they? That said, I would like to think they'll be able to push DLBC out later this year as a nice xmas present. Fingers crossed.

 

[Music707]

Is Dirac Live worth using over Audyssey without DLBC of using 2 subs? How does Dirac Live handle subs without bass control function?

Put simply, you have to do the sub integration "by hand" which is less convenient and bears the risk that you get some important parameter setting not good enough. As a more detailed example you might take a look at the app note below (which is from miniDSP, not Denon).

Sub integration + Dirac Live

miniDSP is a leading manufacturer of Digital Audio Signal Processors for the HomeTheater, Hifi, headphone and Automotive market. Join our large community of Audiophiles, Engineers and DIYers using our innovative products.

www.minidsp.com

 

[NeedForSpeed73]

So, when will DLBC-multi, if ever, be available?

 

[multisport4me]

So, when will DLBC-multi, if ever, be available?

They have consistently said Q1 2024. We're all hoping sooner than that.

 

[NeedForSpeed73]

They have consistently said Q1 2024. We're all hoping sooner than that.

Also multi-sub, not just single?

 

[multisport4me]

Also multi-sub, not just single?

I think so. There is a Powerpoint slide in one of the Masimo Consumer Training showing the roadmap for Dirac and I'm pretty sure DLBC single and multi will be at same time - similar to what they did with the Dirac Live Full vs. limited in yesterday's firmware release. If I happen to come across the video I'll post a link.

 

[enricoclaudio]

Meanwhile, if you have a miniDSP 2x4 HD, just time align your subwoofers with the miniDSP and show them to Dirac or Audyssey as one subwoofer and you will get perfect integration with Dirac or Audyssey. I have been doing this for years already and it works perfectly, in fact, many find this solution bringing better results than DLBC. Honestly, I have no intention to purchase DLBC now or in the future when becomes available.

 

[abdo123]

Meanwhile, if you have a miniDSP 2x4 HD, just time align your subwoofers with the miniDSP and show them to Dirac or Audyssey as one subwoofer and you will get perfect integration with Dirac or Audyssey. I have been doing this for years already and it works perfectly, in fact, many find this solution bringing better results than DLBC.

yeah it works fine. DLBC is all about phase correction across a multiple seats average. which is unprecedented.

 

[slacki]

so in short: the bass management is mostly (except phase correction) to make it more easy to handle the configuration of the bass, but Dirac full can also handle 3 subs, it just needs more configuration/tweaking? I am not sure if i should buy it or wait for DLBC. I have a miniDSP 2x4HD, but removed it from my sound chain as i got better results with Audyssey then with MSO+miniDSP

 

[enricoclaudio]

Just got the Dirac Live license, ran first Dirac Live calibration (9 points because is in my bedroom setup) and calibration ran without a single issue, like perfectly smooth. Switching between Audyssey and Dirac while listening to music is literally shocking. No kidding, it's NIGHT and DAY difference. I'm already contemplating putting for sale my Living room X4700H and getting a second X4800H. I have Dirac Live in my office desk with a miniDSP FLEX TRS and Neumann KH150s + Rythmik Audio E22 subwoofer so I knew what to expect but switching on the fly between Audyssey and Dirac that's another history.

 

[Jambarino]

Just got the Dirac Live license, ran first Dirac Live calibration (9 points because is in my bedroom setup) and calibration ran without a single issue, like perfectly smooth. Switching between Audyssey and Dirac while listening to music is literally shocking. No kidding, it's NIGHT and DAY difference. I'm already contemplating putting for sale my Living room X4700H and getting a second X4800H. I have Dirac Live in my office desk with a miniDSP FLEX TRS and Neumann KH150s + Rythmik Audio E22 subwoofer so I knew what to expect but switching on the fly between Audyssey and Dirac that's another history.

Night and day how exactly?

 

[Vacceo]

Just got the Dirac Live license, ran first Dirac Live calibration (9 points because is in my bedroom setup) and calibration ran without a single issue, like perfectly smooth. Switching between Audyssey and Dirac while listening to music is literally shocking. No kidding, it's NIGHT and DAY difference. I'm already contemplating putting for sale my Living room X4700H and getting a second X4800H. I have Dirac Live in my office desk with a miniDSP FLEX TRS and Neumann KH150s + Rythmik Audio E22 subwoofer so I knew what to expect but switching on the fly between Audyssey and Dirac that's another history.

Can you describe the difference a bit, even if measurements are not at hand? From your words I´d say that given the option, Dirac all the way...

 

[slacki]

guess i'll wait a bit... when i read this here https://avgadgets.com/i-switched-from-audyssey-to-dirac-and-i-wish-i-hadnt/

 

[enricoclaudio]

Night and day how exactly?

Get it, try it and judge yourself. I’m not that kind of person who is going to write fancy and audio fools words to convince others. I did what everyone that owns a X3800H/X4800H should do, try it. If you like it like me, then be happy, otherwise you have 30 days to ask for a refund. Meanwhile I’m here listening to music while biking ‍ indoors over Watopia with my X4800H running Dirac Live with a big smile in my face and ZERO regrets about purchasing the Dirac license.

 

[slacki]

30 days to ask for a refund.

is this in the ToS of them?

 

[Jambarino]

Get it, try it and judge yourself. I’m not that kind of person who is going to write fancy and audio fools words to convince others. I did what everyone that owns a X3800H/X4800H should do, try it. If you like it like me, then be happy, otherwise you have 30 days to ask for a refund. Meanwhile I’m here listening to music while biking ‍ indoors over Watopia with my X4800H running Dirac Live with a big smile in my face and ZERO regrets about purchasing the Dirac license.

Well can you at least elaborate as to if you ran full range or limited correction with Dirac?Did you use Audyssey Multi EQ-X or the app or just on the receiver before Dirac?

 

[enricoclaudio]

Well can you at least elaborate as to if you ran full range or limited correction with Dirac?Did you use Audyssey Multi EQ-X or the app or just on the receiver before Dirac?

I ran full range Dirac Live correction and Audyssey with the app. I have Audyssey in Preset 1 and Dirac in Preset 2. I will post REW measurements later.