• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required as is 20 years of participation in forums (not all true). There are daily reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

SOUND LIAISON, PCM DXD DSD free compare formats sampler. A new 2.0 version.

Sound Liaison

Member
Joined
May 10, 2021
Messages
52
Likes
102
The reason for a 2.0 version of the free compare formats sampler:
We have been made aware by the good folks here at Audio Science Review that our
Test your DAC! Free Format Comparison sampler contained some strange artifacts.
Founder/Admin Amirm has taken the trouble to analyze our free comparison sampler and while he noted that the first 40 seconds were perfectly clean and with musical information all across the bandwidth, the moment the voice entered all kinds of “dirt” showed up in the very high frequencies.

The track we used for the sampler; A Fool For You, is taken from the album;
“Carmen Gomes Sings The Blues”. The album was recorded live in MCO studio 2.
The recording was a collaboration with Rhapsody Analogue Recordings (RAR).
We recorded in DXD 352,8khz and RAR recorded simultaneously to a Studer A80 Reel to Reel tape machine.
We used the same set of microphones but split the signals sending them both to our DXD workstation as well as to a Studer analogue mixer, where the signals were mixed using various vintage analogue equipment.
We liked the color the vintage equipment added to the voice and decided to record that track as well. That is the vocal track we used for the initial mix.
But as Amirm research shows, apparently this signal chain generated some high frequency noise.
Anyway, we have gone back and reopened the DXD multitrack session and made a new mix using the track that went straight to DXD. We tried (and succeeded quite well) in recreating the sound the analogue vintage equipment added to the voice by using the tools we have in our digital workstation. But now without added high frequency noise.

As it says in the About Us text on the SOUND LIAISON site our goal is to build a bridge (liaison) between the studio (engineer and musicians) and the people who love to listen to beautiful music using high quality audio equipment, so we are very grateful that Amirm has taken the time to give us feedback on this recording.
 

sarumbear

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Messages
5,983
Likes
5,369
Thank you @Sound Liaison for openness. I hope you will open the floodgates and other producers will follow you.

Meanwhile, thank you @amirm for creating ASR.
 

Beershaun

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 3, 2019
Messages
1,636
Likes
1,657
Amir, I think you need a new section of the forum for audio reproduction quality. So you and others can post up track analysis so the community can get higher quality sources! thanks so much to Sound Liaison for recognizing the analysis and taking action to improve the music for the community!
 

Herbert

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2018
Messages
416
Likes
368
Sorry to say but i doubt the explanation of the “fix” as sessions are automated. It is very likely they simply put an Eq on the vocals to filter out the noise. I am doing a lit of mixing
for film an documentaries and asa rule of thumb, voices can be filtered above 15khz an below 200 (female) and 100 (male). Not High end though, but already unnoticeable...
 

mansr

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 5, 2018
Messages
4,692
Likes
10,595
Location
Hampshire
We liked the color the vintage equipment added to the voice and decided to record that track as well. That is the vocal track we used for the initial mix.
But as Amirm research shows, apparently this signal chain generated some high frequency noise.
Anyway, we have gone back and reopened the DXD multitrack session and made a new mix using the track that went straight to DXD. We tried (and succeeded quite well) in recreating the sound the analogue vintage equipment added to the voice by using the tools we have in our digital workstation. But now without added high frequency noise.
What does this mean for the full album release?
 

sarumbear

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Messages
5,983
Likes
5,369
Sorry to say but i doubt the explanation of the “fix” as sessions are automated.
What do you mean by automated sessions? I love to hear how the automation works on a mix-down session.
 

Herbert

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2018
Messages
416
Likes
368
What do you mean by automated sessions? I love to hear how the automation works on a mix-down session.
That every fader movement, panning, plugin-parameter, midi data, name it, is written in the session that creates the mix.
That purpose is what the sound engineer did is stored as metadata and can be repeated using the source tracks.
This data can even be exported, as aaf or xml. With some quirks (often plugin-parameters don´t get exported but volume and panning do as well as edits) but basically the mix can be transferred between DAWs.
Every DAW stores this data. I was trained on ProTools (und sometimes use it in my Job) but use Apple´s defunct "Soundtrack"privately.
 

sarumbear

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Messages
5,983
Likes
5,369
That every fader movement, panning, plugin-parameter, midi data, name it, is written in the session that creates the mix.
If you read the producer's post they said they have just swapped the analogue capture file with the digital captured one. Mix stayed the same. They have also said that they applied processing in the digital domain to match the warmth they heard on the analogue track. What makes you doubt their very simple and logical explanation of the “fix”?

Are you suggesting that they are telling porky pies?
 
Last edited:

Herbert

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2018
Messages
416
Likes
368
First of all the noise starts way over the human voice,
If I remember the video correctly the first peak was about 30kHz, maybe more.
Way, way over the human voice - and it´s overtones (if any) get "buried" by the overtones of
the backing instruments anyway.
No harm done cutting the singers track gently above let´s say 24 kHz
-except in the eyes(not ears) of "audiophiles". Time to tell porky pies.
We should not forget that in all of Amirs High-Res review overtones are extremely low.
In this recording and other, -100db is safe to say isn't it?
Second they liked the "warmth" of the analog capture file but a good analogue chain
should not add any warmth - if you can detect it by ear, check the chain.
If they even used the tape recording of the multichannel A80,
they have a very impressive unit -
the Studer maxes out a 18kHz @76.2cm/s, the highest speed.
(Nevertheless sound engineers loved to use analog tape for
recording drums because tape compression makes them sound fat.
But plugins from Waves or Izotope recreate "tape sound" for at least 15 years.
And I could trick any "audiophile" with those plugins to listen to an analog tape or even vinyl.)
Anyway:
Only the analog equipment without the A80 (i.e mixing desk, compressors, preamps)
must have picked the noise while creating "warmth" -
done more likely by an analog compressor than by an analog chain.
And if this recording was done live as they stated (this suggests one take and all playing
simultaneously) why did only the singers equipment pick up noise?

Screenshots of the sessions would show, if they are telling porky pies.
But this is high end, and audiosciencereview has already revealed many porky pies, so...?
 
Last edited:

sarumbear

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Messages
5,983
Likes
5,369
But this is high end, and audiosciencereview has already revealed many porky pies, so...?
So you are thinking that they are telling porky pies.
 

AdamG247

Fishing Permitted-Must Eat catch!!
Moderator
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Messages
3,247
Likes
8,699
Perhaps it’s just a misunderstanding. Let’s give them the benefit of the doubt and adequate time to respond to the questions. We want to invite their participation and not immediately punish them for joining. Slow the roll please.
 

sarumbear

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Messages
5,983
Likes
5,369

sarumbear

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Messages
5,983
Likes
5,369
Yes, I know. Do we get the revised copy of this album?
There is no album. The product is not physical. You download a file. If you re-download the file the new version of it should arrive. If in doubt ask your seller.
 

Geert

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 20, 2020
Messages
1,395
Likes
2,254
Yes, I know. Do we get the revised copy of this album?
If I'm not mistaken they only fixed one song of the 'downloadable album', available as a sampler. So first question is if they plan to redo everything.
 
Top Bottom