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Sony SS-CS5 3-way Speaker Review

infinitesymphony

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When you mention the Pioneer I guess you mean the Pioneer SP-BS22 Andrew Jones, right?
Subjectively speaking, I auditioned those Pioneers some time ago and certainly liked them very much but Im unsure how would they handle bass. I didn't play all of my fav songs so I don't know.
Now, objectively, do those Pioneers have better measurements than these Sony?
They're pretty close to each other on paper. The Olive score gives the edge to the Pioneers (5.0 vs. 4.5). Hard to evaluate the difference in distortion characteristics because I'm not sure we have the same measurements for both due to the way ASR's distortion measurements took some time to standardize.
 

richard12511

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Thanks for your answer.

When you mention the Pioneer I guess you mean the Pioneer SP-BS22 Andrew Jones, right?
Subjectively speaking, I auditioned those Pioneers some time ago and certainly liked them very much but Im unsure how would they handle bass. I didn't play all of my fav songs so I don't know.
Now, objectively, do those Pioneers have better measurements than these Sony?

Thanks!

Yes. The SP-BS22 look slightly better objectively, for not much more money.
 

chad2

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do you have some sort of speaker leader board as you do with everything else you compare because i would really like to see how these compare to other speakers of the same price and even not considering price.
 

Jacob_MN

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I purchased the towers and center versions of this and I must say I regret it. Wish I would have read the ASR review instead of going off of the many subjective reviewers who rave about these. The first couple months my newbie ears enjoyed the sound stage/imaging and detail on these, but the longer I have them, the more unpleasant they become. Now after a couple years living with them all I can hear is the overall brightness and peaky-ness in the pain region which for me is around 2.5khz. These become so painful at high volumes its difficult to enjoy even movie dynamics, much less loud music. Don't listen to the youtuber subjective rave reviews on these, these are poor sounding speakers. My Dayton MK402x are much more balanced sounding and easy on the ears for around the same price and can get surprisingly loud for a dinky 4" driver.
 
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chad2

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I am confused by your grading criteria. I have just read through your review of the definitive demand D11's. Your conclusion was a GOOD RECOMMENDATION for those speakers, which cost 1000$. But these Sony's which cost 148$ full price and 73$ on sale, you gave a BAD RECOMMENDATION? You also scored the Sony's higher than the D11's on your leader board? Before reading the D11 review i just thought that you did not take price into consideration but now i think price absolutely affects you’re hearing. Yes the Sony's are bright but this issue is easily fixed, all i did was buy two sets for the price of one, removed the cheap vinyl, glued them together top to top (MTM style), and refinished the outside with some quarter inch cabinet plywood. At 146$ free shipping, 30$ for wood, a little elbow grease and some wood working skills these are unbeatable. You just seem to be more critical of a 148$ set of speakers then you are of a 1000$ set of speakers
 

chad2

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i respect everyone's opinion and yes my opinion is more based off of the set up i have. but it is undoubtedly weird that the OP grades a 1000$ speaker lower then a 148$ speaker, yet gives a YES recommendation for the 1000$ speaker and a NO recommendation for the 148$ speaker. design and price target is and always has been a HUGE factor in audio. so you would think a 1000$ speaker would sound 7 times better as long as you don't factor diminishing returns. but if you do factor diminishing returns then the D11's should still be FAR better sound wise, in my opinion at least twice as good as the SSCS5's. LOVE THE FORUM!!! i will still use it as a means of finding the best gear thank you for doing what you do!!!
 

Dennis Murphy

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Yes. The SP-BS22 look slightly better objectively, for not much more money.

Having worked with hundreds of the Pioneers and several of the Sony's, there's no question that the Sony sounds more neutral and detailed. If I hadn't thought the Pioneers were seriously deficient, I wouldn't have gone to the trouble of throwing away the tweeters, starting over again from scratch with the crossover, and then losing money selling the modded version for several years (reviewed earlier by Amir: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/affordable-accuracy-monitor-review.13624/

The Sony really only has one problem, and that's inadequate baffle step compensation, identifiable by the somewhat boosted response around 1 kHz. The Pioneer shares this problem, and to a larger extent. You can actually get rid of that issue by extending the width of the front baffle using styro strips. I'm not seriously suggesting owners start taping these things on, but they do show what a terrific speaker this is once the midrange is flattened out enough to let the lower treble detail come through transparently. The speaker is not bright and I'm not sure why others seem to think so. And it certainly doesn't measure bright on any of my measurements, which have consistently jibed with the KIlippel machine and aren't really that different than Amir's measurements for this speaker. RIght now I'm starting into what I hope will be a simple Xover mod to increase baffle step compensation. I'll get to that just as soon as I figure out how to get the woofer out of the cabinet--it's glued in.
 

kotmj

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Having worked with hundreds of the Pioneers and several of the Sony's, there's no question that the Sony sounds more neutral and detailed. If I hadn't thought the Pioneers were seriously deficient, I wouldn't have gone to the trouble of throwing away the tweeters, starting over again from scratch with the crossover, and then losing money selling the modded version for several years (reviewed earlier by Amir: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/affordable-accuracy-monitor-review.13624/

The Sony really only has one problem, and that's inadequate baffle step compensation, identifiable by the somewhat boosted response around 1 kHz. The Pioneer shares this problem, and to a larger extent. You can actually get rid of that issue by extending the width of the front baffle using styro strips. I'm not seriously suggesting owners start taping these things on, but they do show what a terrific speaker this is once the midrange is flattened out enough to let the lower treble detail come through transparently. The speaker is not bright and I'm not sure why others seem to think so. And it certainly doesn't measure bright on any of my measurements, which have consistently jibed with the KIlippel machine and aren't really that different than Amir's measurements for this speaker. RIght now I'm starting into what I hope will be a simple Xover mod to increase baffle step compensation. I'll get to that just as soon as I figure out how to get the woofer out of the cabinet--it's glued in.
I fixed the lack of treble energy in the Bs21 simply by replacing the tweeter capacitor with another. Used an Elna Silmic II. Completely brightened the speaker.
 

kotmj

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IMG_20210521_005441.jpg

The xover in the floorstanding version, the ss-cs3
 

infinitesymphony

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You also scored the Sony's higher than the D11's on your leader board?
There is no ASR leader board for speakers. The only scores that are posted are based on Sean Olive's preference formula. It's not perfect but it's what we have.

If you're talking about "Amir's rating" based on panther selection or recommendation, I would take both of those metrics with a large grain of salt and draw your own conclusions based on the data. :)
 

kotmj

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It's just the plastic vanity ring that's glued. Just pry it loose. The woofer is not glued.
 

Dennis Murphy

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It's just the plastic vanity ring that's glued. Just pry it loose. The woofer is not glued.
Well, whatever is glued isn't coming out. I had a professional carpenter working on it this morning. We've already inflicted some minor damage.
 

chad2

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Well, whatever is glued isn't coming out. I had a professional carpenter working on it this morning. We've already inflicted some minor damage.

i also had a lot of trouble and gave up due to minor damage occurring.
 

Dennis Murphy

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i also had a lot of trouble and gave up due to minor damage occurring.
Well, there go my plans to mod the Sony's. I suppose a heat gun might melt the woofer surround. Sure wish someone who has succeeded would post some advice.
 

MrPeabody

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Well, there go my plans to mod the Sony's. I suppose a heat gun might melt the woofer surround. Sure wish someone who has succeeded would post some advice.

There is a Youtube video of a guy who removed the woofer. The trim ring is glued down at four points, which are the midpoints between the screws. He removed the trim ring by using a big sharp knife to pry it off, but if you watch it, it will make you cringe because he pays no attention to the knife edge coming in contact with the driver surround. The glue points are at the 12 o'clock, 3 o'clock, 6 o'clock and 9 o'clock positions. At these positions, the trim ring has studs that insert into holes in the baffle; the studs are glued into the holes. Perhaps it would be possible to use a drill to drill out the studs, but if I were doing it I would probably sacrifice the trim ring in order to minimize damage to the surrounding area. Since the trim ring isn't glued down at the points where the screws are found, I would use something like a pair of wire snips to cut through the trim ring at the holes for the screws. One snip on one side of the hole, another snip on another side of the hole. Repeat for the other three holes. Then pull up on the broken ends and just break apart the four pieces until there's nothing left except for the four studs. Whereas the four screws are the screws that secure the driver, the four studs are located outside the perimeter of the driver. As such, it should be possible to remove the driver with the studs still glued in place, which would minimize risk of damaging the driver when dealing with the studs. I don't know whether I'd cut the studs flush with the baffle face or drill them out. If I had a drill press I would maybe drill the studs out, but without a drill press I'd probably use one of those thin Japanese saws to cut them off flush. The video isn't interesting until about 30 minutes in.

 

Dennis Murphy

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There is a Youtube video of a guy who removed the woofer. The trim ring is glued down at four points, which are the midpoints between the screws. He removed the trim ring by using a big sharp knife to pry it off, but if you watch it, it will make you cringe because he pays no attention to the knife edge coming in contact with the driver surround. The glue points are at the 12 o'clock, 3 o'clock, 6 o'clock and 9 o'clock positions. At these positions, the trim ring has studs that insert into holes in the baffle; the studs are glued into the holes. Perhaps it would be possible to use a drill to drill out the studs, but if I were doing it I would probably sacrifice the trim ring in order to minimize damage to the surrounding area. Since the trim ring isn't glued down at the points where the screws are found, I would use something like a pair of wire snips to cut through the trim ring at the holes for the screws. One snip on one side of the hole, another snip on another side of the hole. Repeat for the other three holes. Then pull up on the broken ends and just break apart the four pieces until there's nothing left except for the four studs. Whereas the four screws are the screws that secure the driver, the four studs are located outside the perimeter of the driver. As such, it should be possible to remove the driver with the studs still glued in place, which would minimize risk of damaging the driver when dealing with the studs. I don't know whether I'd cut the studs flush with the baffle face or drill them out. If I had a drill press I would maybe drill the studs out, but without a drill press I'd probably use one of those thin Japanese saws to cut them off flush. The video isn't interesting until about 30 minutes in.

Can't ask for more than that. Thanks! I'm not sure I'll end up with a marketable product cosmetically, but it will still be interesting to see what can be done with the crossover (which is already way more sophisticated than I every would have imagined. They must have fired the bean counters at Sony.)
 

richard12511

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Can't ask for more than that. Thanks! I'm not sure I'll end up with a marketable product cosmetically, but it will still be interesting to see what can be done with the crossover (which is already way more sophisticated than I every would have imagined. They must have fired the bean counters at Sony.)

Considering the bargain basement price, I think it's crazy that this speaker got a headless panther o_O. Excited to see what you can come up with, I'm sure you'll find a way to make it much better, just like you did with the Pioneer.
 
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