Sonus Faber Lumina II - Review & Measurements by Erin

[Moonbase]

What makes you think they're made in Italy?

Maybe because they are according to sf. The drivers are German.

 

[bodhi]

This budget model might be very useful from salesperson perspective.

Let's assume that the mark is already interested in SF speakers for their looks and fame. You have one pair of these to demo and then start the demo with it. What the mark notices is that the sound quality clearly gets better with price. For example the 7k Olympica Nova has bat curve, but it's better overall and 20k Guarneri bookshelf looks like it's halfway decent.

 

[Moonbase]

The issues with these speaker are being plucked from the graphs don’t reflect their subjective performance.
They work well and like many other non linear Speakers (some highly rated on this site). They benefit from a bit of EQ , but then again what speaker does not when put in a real persons room. A dealer demo often leads to disappointment for this reason
The reason for the lift in treble is to fake a light and airy sound not to compensate for poor hearing. SF like say Kef are in the middle ground here.

SF background is for make high quality furniture grade speakers and this welcome venture into more budget speakers is welcomed.

 

[DSJR]

Sonus Faber have rarely made a properly 'neutral' speaker, although back in the day the VERY solid carcasses and pretty decent driver and crossover components helped to present a domestically very attractive sound quality. Favourites in my day were the old Concerto in both versions, Cremona floorstander and the over-clear Signum (see, I'm an oldie). The cheaper models look to be visual nods to those old classic models, but maybe they actually perform better? They certainly lack the looks of the old ones though.

A subjective vibe to the chap with the Krell FPB400. I only know the 300 model and for whatever reason, even a cheap two way Denon speaker from a micro system of theirs (SCM7) NEVER sounded so well 'grounded' and good to listen to. I'm not surprised the solid sonics of the FPB400 suits a speaker such as these (why I have a Crown DC300A on my bucket list as one sample I know well does similar things - iron fist in velvet glove approach - without the high end cachet). And yes, I'm perfectly sure one of the newer decent Class D amps with some serious power into 4 ohms would do similarly At least the hf rise is smooth enough without a nasty peak at 15khz or so.

 

[TonyJZX]

the lumina 1 is $1k

this is $1.4

the lumina 3 floors at $2.5

i think these are fair for what is bordering on a luxury product

and they are cribbing from the B&W playbook? the elevated treble so the old duffers buying them can 'hear' the difference

 

[Klonatans]

Life is too short to read every review carefully. For me at least.

If I'm about to buy an audio product, I would carefully read and listen every valuable bit of information available about it, so I'm genuinely grateful to Erin and Amir for the extensive and honest work they are doing for the audio community.

 

[delta76]

If I'm about to buy an audio product, I would carefully read and listen every valuable bit of information available about it, so I'm genuinely grateful to Erin and Amir for the extensive and honest work they are doing for the audio community.

If you read my previous post, i do the same before buying a speaker. Read and reread then comments.
Let put it like this, Amir has reviewed more than 100 speakers. Most of them are bookshelf. Would you like a way to quickly narrow down it to 10, or even 5 short list so you can research them in depth? Or you want/can read all the reviews first?

Anyway this has been dragging for too long without adding value to the thread. My apologies It is just my humble opinion. Erin can do reviews in format that he likes best (or thinks is best for his audiences)

 

[Klonatans]

If you read my previous post, i do the same before buying a speaker. Read and reread then comments.
Let put it like this, Amir has reviewed more than 100 speakers. Most of them are bookshelf. Would you like a way to quickly narrow down it to 10, or even 5 short list so you can research them in depth? Or you want/can read all the reviews first?

Anyway this has been dragging for too long without adding value to the thread. My apologies It is just my humble opinion. Erin can do reviews in format that he likes best (or thinks is best for his audiences)

Well, speakers are not something people normally buy very often, not a purchase done on a whim. For instance, if I'm looking for active standmount speakers I wouldn't look at any reviews of passive speakers and floorstanders, thus narrowing the choice.

I agree about the missing added value to the thread. Let's not derail the discussion on Sonus Faber Lumina II.

 

[Moonbase]

the lumina 1 is $1k

this is $1.4

the lumina 3 floors at $2.5

i think these are fair for what is bordering on a luxury product

and they are cribbing from the B&W playbook? the elevated treble so the old duffers buying them can 'hear' the difference

Actually us old duffers struggle more with bass. The b&w style treble comes across as sibilant and very unpleasant This is not an issue with lumina Ii. For sure the styling is more in line with the older listener.Point is have you listened to them at all?

 

[bodhi]

Actually us old duffers struggle more with bass. The b&w style treble comes across as sibilant and very unpleasant This is not an issue with lumina Ii. For sure the styling is more in line with the older listener.Point is have you listened to them at all?

This "yeah they measure horribly but sound better subjectively"-thing has already been discussed in several earlier threads about overpriced speakers. End result is something like "they sound just like the measure, but one could prefer that kind of sound". If on the other hand,one knows they like neutral and well behaving speakers there is absolutely no reason to go listen to some expensive furniture.

With the Wilsons there was at least exorbitant price that might tempt people to go listen to them, but this one? Hard pass.

 

[MarcT]

Sonus Faber have rarely made a properly 'neutral' speaker, although back in the day the VERY solid carcasses and pretty decent driver and crossover components helped to present a domestically very attractive sound quality. Favourites in my day were the old Concerto in both versions, Cremona floorstander and the over-clear Signum (see, I'm an oldie). The cheaper models look to be visual nods to those old classic models, but maybe they actually perform better? They certainly lack the looks of the old ones though.

A subjective vibe to the chap with the Krell FPB400. I only know the 300 model and for whatever reason, even a cheap two way Denon speaker from a micro system of theirs (SCM7) NEVER sounded so well 'grounded' and good to listen to. I'm not surprised the solid sonics of the FPB400 suits a speaker such as these (why I have a Crown DC300A on my bucket list as one sample I know well does similar things - iron fist in velvet glove approach - without the high end cachet). And yes, I'm perfectly sure one of the newer decent Class D amps with some serious power into 4 ohms would do similarly At least the hf rise is smooth enough without a nasty peak at 15khz or so.

Interestingly, I recently noticed some spotty black discoloration on my 400cx electrical plug prongs. It looked like some sort of spots from water or other fluid. There was discoloration on all three prongs. I'm not sure which parts of the prongs were making contact inside the wall socket. I thought, well, it couldn't hurt to polish that discoloration off of there, so I did so(it wouldn't all come off) with a sanding bar. The prongs were then noticeably clear and shiny looking.

I had strong doubts that it would make much difference, but I'll be danged if the highs like cymbals are not more prominent and clear. I don't notice any difference in the bass. I know that the consensus here will be that it's down to confirmation or expectation bias, but I've been listening to these speakers for over a year now(yes, I know aural memory is only a second or two).

One thing I need to do is take these Lumina's to my other system(also a damped room) and drive them with the AVR/McCormack power amp combo I have in there, and see how the treble sounds. That might give me an idea if the Krell is why I don't find the Lumina's bright sounding, which they are apperently supposed to be.

 

[MKR]

Interestingly, I recently noticed some spotty black discoloration on my 400cx electrical plug prongs. It looked like some sort of spots from water or other fluid. There was discoloration on all three prongs. I'm not sure which parts of the prongs were making contact inside the wall socket. I thought, well, it couldn't hurt to polish that discoloration off of there, so I did so(it wouldn't all come off) with a sanding bar. The prongs were then noticeably clear and shiny looking.

I had strong doubts that it would make much difference, but I'll be danged if the highs like cymbals are not more prominent and clear. I don't notice any difference in the bass. I know that the consensus here will be that it's down to confirmation or expectation bias, but I've been listening to these speakers for over a year now(yes, I know aural memory is only a second or two).

One thing I need to do is take these Lumina's to my other system(also a damped room) and drive them with the AVR/McCormack power amp combo I have in there, and see how the treble sounds. That might give me an idea if the Krell is why I don't find the Lumina's bright sounding, which they are apperently supposed to be.

Well, I must say you are a brave fella to say such a thing on ASR. I am sorry, but I will be the first to say this is silliness. Your observation is reality for you, and I respect that. But, you either have power to your components or you don’t, there is no way cleaning that plug made any difference whatsoever in the sound. Otherwise my EE degree is apparently useless and everything I learned nonsense. Not trying to be a jerk here, just sayin

 

[MarcT]

Well, I must say you are a brave fella to say such a thing on ASR. I am sorry, but I will be the first to say this is silliness. Your observation is reality for you, and I respect that. But, you either have power to your components or you don’t, there is no way cleaning that plug made any difference whatsoever in the sound. Otherwise my EE degree is apparently useless and everything I learned nonsense. Not trying to be a jerk here, just sayin

No need to apologize. So, just to be clear, are you saying that no amount of corrosion or surface build up on the electrodes will make a difference? Can there be any voltage loss from such a situation?

Also, it's interesting, from what I've gathered from comments here over the years, if I were to have an expectation or hope that some change will make a difference and it does to me, then it's down to expectation/confirmation bias. But if I do NOT expect a change to make an audible difference and it does to me, then that is also expectation/confirmation bias. This is what makes no sense to me. If I don't believe there will be a change, how can it be confirmation/expectation bias? Since I don't want to be throwing money away unnecessarily, I've always been skeptical of manufacturer claims about audio equipment.

 

[Purité Audio]

Bias just doesn’t work that way, to make a really valid comparison you simply cannot know which you are listening to.
Keith

 

[MarcT]

Bias just doesn’t work that way, to make a really valid comparison you simply cannot know which you are listening to.
Keith

Bias being a really slippery thing, I guess. I guess we never really know what we are thinking.

 

[ahofer]

then it's down to expectation/confirmation bias. But if I do NOT expect a change to make an audible difference and it does to me, then that is also expectation/confirmation bias

Don’t get confused with “confirmation bias”, that’s a subset of the family of biases that will sway your sighted decisions in ways of which you will not be conscious.

 

[MKR]

No need to apologize. So, just to be clear, are you saying that no amount of corrosion or surface build up on the electrodes will make a difference? Can there be any voltage loss from such a situation?

Also, it's interesting, from what I've gathered from comments here over the years, if I were to have an expectation or hope that some change will make a difference and it does to me, then it's down to expectation/confirmation bias. But if I do NOT expect a change to make an audible difference and it does to me, then that is also expectation/confirmation bias. This is what makes no sense to me. If I don't believe there will be a change, how can it be confirmation/expectation bias? Since I don't want to be throwing money away unnecessarily, I've always been skeptical of manufacturer claims about audio equipment.

I just didn’t want you to think I was picking on you. Especially you are very intellectually honest and receptive (respond like a grown up to critique), and I appreciate that. I enjoy your posts here on ASR, even if I don’t agree. The fact that you stated “no need to apologize” proves my sentiment

To elaborate, if you have corrosion so bad it causes an issue with your electronics, it just won’t power on, or you may have intermittent power (brown outs basically) if you have intermittent continuity. But you either have power or you don’t, sound or no sound … But no difference in sound quality.

Now, if the amp has an issue with its own power supply, then indeed you may have issues with sound quality. But if amp is fine and it has power, nope.

 

[MarcT]

I just didn’t want you to think I was picking on you. Especially you are very intellectually honest and receptive (respond like a grown up to critique), and I appreciate that. I enjoy your posts here on ASR, even if I don’t agree. The fact that you stated “no need to apologize” proves my sentiment

To elaborate, if you have corrosion so bad it causes an issue with your electronics, it just won’t power on, or you may have intermittent power (brown outs basically) if you have intermittent continuity. But you either have power or you don’t, sound or no sound … But no difference in sound quality.

Now, if the amp has an issue with its own power supply, then indeed you may have issues with sound quality. But if amp is fine and it has power, nope.

Okay, so I'll take your word for it. But, let me ask you this perhaps unrelated question. Say the voltage at one nominally 120v wall output measures at 110 volts, while another outlet measures at 124 volts, is it possible that an amplifier might have slightly different operating characteristics between the two outlets?

 

[MKR]

Okay, so I'll take your word for it. But, let me ask you this perhaps unrelated question. Say the voltage at one nominally 120v wall output measures at 110 volts, while another outlet measures at 124 volts, is it possible that an amplifier might have slightly different operating characteristics between the two outlets?

Nope … as long regulator in your electronics is designed to handle such variability (and a good one is) and outputs consistent DC voltage/current to the power rails of the internal electronics. If the power dips or surges enough to cause the power supply output to go out of spec, it should fault if it is a good design, not degrade sound. But, again, if that internal power supply is broken, then sure, maybe it could be sensitive to varying power coming out of the wall. But then we are talking a broken amp, nothing to do per se with wall power variation. I suppose you could also have a very poorly designed power supply that may have such issues, but if yes, you would have other very noticeable issues.

 

[DSJR]

Interestingly, I recently noticed some spotty black discoloration on my 400cx electrical plug prongs. It looked like some sort of spots from water or other fluid. There was discoloration on all three prongs. I'm not sure which parts of the prongs were making contact inside the wall socket. I thought, well, it couldn't hurt to polish that discoloration off of there, so I did so(it wouldn't all come off) with a sanding bar. The prongs were then noticeably clear and shiny looking.

I had strong doubts that it would make much difference, but I'll be danged if the highs like cymbals are not more prominent and clear. I don't notice any difference in the bass. I know that the consensus here will be that it's down to confirmation or expectation bias, but I've been listening to these speakers for over a year now(yes, I know aural memory is only a second or two).

One thing I need to do is take these Lumina's to my other system(also a damped room) and drive them with the AVR/McCormack power amp combo I have in there, and see how the treble sounds. That might give me an idea if the Krell is why I don't find the Lumina's bright sounding, which they are apperently supposed to be.

Look, it NEVER does any harm to clean contacts annually say, especially if they're exposed to the atmosphere. Whether you'd *hear* any difference doesn't matter really