Sonos Play 5 vs Genelec 8361A

[FrantzM]

Hi

This is a very interesting subject. A bit of a background: I came from the other side. It wasn't 10 years ago that I started saving for a speaker that would have cost me, used, close to $20,000.oo. Amir invited to join ASR. I have never derived so much pleasure, learned so much and enjoyed such great end results, from joining an Audio forum. My current system, one that is truly full range and follows the Toole curve, cost me less than $5000.oo.. I had a DAC at one point, yes! A single DAC!! that cost more...
Yet there is a curve, there is a learning curve. One learns to appreciate the little differences and somewhat you no longer can unhear them. Once you are exposed to a certain level of quality audio reproduction, then you .. just ...know. But the differences are not as marked as many would want you to believe, past a certain degree of "faithfullness" . IOW the Sonos 5 is good and it might be good enough for many people, even audiophiles. I daresay that I have found some SONOS systems more enjoyable than audiophile ones.. especially the SET amplifers+ so-called "Full range" driver nonsenses that some audiophiles hail as the Graal... And yeah, also, better than some ridiculously priced 2-way "mini-monitors" too... I will not names but ... eh...
So I can understand that the SONOS 5 might be satisfying, especially if the limits aren't pushed, and/or if the Genelecs aren't
optimized for the environment in which both speakers/brands are playing. I would even think that the SONOS app, TruePlay is easier to work with than GLM...
But I am certain that if both are optimized... all bets are off. The 8361 shall win in a landslide, even for the un-initiated.


Peace.

 

[RobL]

…
And that's ignoring things like directivity, reliability (problematic for the 708p), sturdiness.

Shouldn’t forget resale value as well…I’m trying to sell a pair of nearly new 705p’s and I’m going to take a bath on them.

 

[Elkios]

This is obviously trolling.

No it's not

 

[Darvis]

My current system, one that is truly full range and follows the Toole curve, cost me less than $5000

Share it with us

 

[FrantzM]

Share it with us

I did in other post but here it goes :
The system Prices:

Item	Model And Description	Qty	Each	Total
1	JBL LSR308 Active Monitors	3	$250.00	$ 750.00
2	JBL LSR305 Active Monitors	2	$150.00	$ 300.00
3	Dayton Audio SUB-1500 Powered Subwoofers	2	$250.00	$ 500.00
4	Denon AVR-X3400H	1	$900.00	$ 900.00
5	Apple TV4K	1	$200.00	$ 200.00
6	Benq HT2050A Projector	1	$750.00	$ 750.00
7	miniDSP 2x4 HD + UMik-1 microphone	1	$350.00	$ 350.00
8	BD Player	1	$350.00	$ 350.00
9	JBL Stage A120	2	$85.00	$ 170.00
10	100 inch diagonal Stewart GrayHawk screen (great deal on eBaY, normal price is perhaps, 20 times more with the frame!!!))	1	$300	$ 300.00
	Total Price System delivered in the USA	$ 4,470.00

I listen to music in 2-channel with the subwoofers. HT goes full Atmos...


Peace.

 

[Darvis]

I did in other post but here it goes :
The system Prices:

Item	Model And Description	Qty	Each	Total
1	JBL LSR308 Active Monitors	3	$250.00	$ 750.00
2	JBL LSR305 Active Monitors	2	$150.00	$ 300.00
3	Dayton Audio SUB-1500 Powered Subwoofers	2	$250.00	$ 500.00
4	Denon AVR-X3400H	1	$900.00	$ 900.00
5	Apple TV4K	1	$200.00	$ 200.00
6	Benq HT2050A Projector	1	$750.00	$ 750.00
7	miniDSP 2x4 HD + UMik-1 microphone	1	$350.00	$ 350.00
8	BD Player	1	$350.00	$ 350.00
9	JBL Stage A120	2	$85.00	$ 170.00
10	100 inch diagonal Stewart GrayHawk screen (great deal on eBaY, normal price is perhaps, 20 times more with the frame!!!))	1	$300	$ 300.00
	Total Price System delivered in the USA	$ 4,470.00

I listen to music in 2-channel with the subwoofers. HT goes full Atmos...


Peace.

Thanks!

 

[Pearljam5000]

So, there's no point in investing in the Genelecs?

 

[voodooless]

So, there's no point in investing in the Genelecs?

Come on, get the Sonos already!

 

[kemmler3D]

FWIW I did some critical listening on the Play 5 for work and it's surprisingly flat and designed for a pretty wide listening area. In the right (wrong) room I could imagine it having a subjectively similar tonality to a Genelec if you aren't asking for much bass or SPL.

 

[Peluvius]

FWIW I did some critical listening on the Play 5 for work and it's surprisingly flat and designed for a pretty wide listening area. In the right (wrong) room I could imagine it having a subjectively similar tonality to a Genelec if you aren't asking for much bass or SPL.

The Play 5 is a great speaker and would be selected by most of the people I know over the Genelec based on price and visuals.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder (or the ear as may be more relevant for this forum) ....

 

[kemmler3D]

The main weakness of the Play 5 and similar speakers is it's simply not designed to produce a stereo image, you can kinda get one in a very odd sweet spot right in front of the speaker, but that's not really what it's for. The FR and everything are good, but they're meant to be placed on odd tables and shelves around a house to create ambience. For a traditional hifi listening setup they're not very well suited. I think you can set something up with multiples, but most people don't use them in a proper stereo setup.

While we're acknowleding the merits of mainstream brands, the Sonos soundbar is also really not bad for what it is. Again not what I would call a crisp stereo image coming from it, but the SPL and FR are (subjectively) pretty damn respectable for a soundbar.

 

[RobL]

So, there's no point in investing in the Genelecs?

Darn…I could have bought 14 Play 5’s instead of the 8361’s I ordered. Could’ve been “Play 5’s for everyone!”.

 

[cbracer]

The main weakness of the Play 5 and similar speakers is it's simply not designed to produce a stereo image, you can kinda get one in a very odd sweet spot right in front of the speaker, but that's not really what it's for. The FR and everything are good, but they're meant to be placed on odd tables and shelves around a house to create ambience. For a traditional hifi listening setup they're not very well suited. I think you can set something up with multiples, but most people don't use them in a proper stereo setup.

Oh, it seemed to me our discussion was with dual Play 5 speakers set up in a proper stereo setup. That's how mine are. While decent, the sound of just one is no where near as good as a pair of them in stereo. Significantly, as with the Ikea bookshelf speakers as well. When you play with just one, however they combine the stereo sound is just not natural to me. Besides, it's not fair in our discussion to compare one Play 5 to a pair of Genelec speakers. The one thing I've not experimented with is the horizontal vs vertical orientation of the Play 5 speakers in stereo.

 

[oivavoi]

Interesting thread. I'm surprised so many people are surprised by this though? These impressions are fairly in line with many studies in loudspeaker research. These reactions indicate to me that many people's knowledge of perceptual studies in audio science remains superficial.

First of all: The law of diminishing returns sets in fairly early in loudspeakers. A decent speaker which costs $100 will sound much better than a speaker which costs $10. A speaker which costs $1000, however, will usually not sound ten times better than the speaker which costs $100. And a speaker which costs $10000 will certainly not sound ten times better than the speaker which costs $1000.

If you look at preference studies of loudspeakers, the difference in preference between the "best" and the "good" are usually not dramatically big.

Second: The Sonos 5s actually measure well.

Look at this post for links to measurements which look to be of good quality, unlike Rtings which was posted in the thread. Note the deep bass and the even frequency response.

Peter Pee’s measurements for the Five and Sub Gen 3.

https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCnUOo0U4wI2b9R4ghXmKblw

Note the Y-axis scaling.
View attachment 159574
View attachment 159575
The downward tilt is missing from the target curve which is why it may be a bit bright sounding compared to a classic Harman curve. It’s not clear if this is taken with or without the Loudness compensation which defaults to on.

Trueplay does indeed appear to correct more than bass frequencies and relies on model specific calibration which is why it is only for the iPhone. They do mention that different speakers have different target curves.

Trueplay Spectral Correction

Read more about the unique combination of software and hardware that powers the Sonos ecosystem. Welcome to our technology blog.

tech-blog.sonos.com

[...]

But what is impressive is that the Sonos is pretty reasonable with distortion
View attachment 159579View attachment 159580View attachment 159581
[...]

VP of Product Management. Chris Kallai, spent a short time with Harman and was Director of Engineering for Velodyne before moving to Sonos.

Paul Peace, one of the Principal Audio System Engineers at Sonos spent years at JBL Pro.

Paul Maclean, a Director of Audio System Engineering at Sonos, is from Paradigm during the 2000-2010 era.

Their anechoic chamber at Sonos Santa Barbara is claimed to be the largest in the West Coast (?). Not sure how it compares to Harman Northridge or Samsung Los Angeles.

SONOS - The Howard Electric Company

The world leader in audio speakers and wireless sound systems. New Sonos testing facility included construction of the largest Anechoic Chamber on the west coast. This giant chamber is built as a steel-box with a trampoline style net floor. The chamber continues below, with the...

www.howardelectricco.com

Their Boston chamber is claimed to be the largest in the world, dedicated to speakers.

Sonos Behind-The-Scenes In Photos | Digital Trends

Take an exclusive look at how Sonos develops its state-of-the-art wireless Hi-Fi speakers with our behind-the-scenes photo gallery

www.digitaltrends.com

The Sonos 5s also have wider dispersion than the Genelecs. Research shows most people like that.
Sonos also has a very good automatic room correction system, which actually works very well.

Personally I think one play 5 is a bit "meh", whereas two 5s corrected with trueplay sounds really really good.

I would not be surprised if blind tests would reveal some listeners to prefer the Sonos 5s to Genelecs.

 

[srrxr71]

Not necessarily. With these controlled directivity and ruler flat speakers like genelec etc., even if you put them in a bad room they will still perform well past a certain frequency.

If you run the calibration that is. I think the whole point of them is to cover for a bad room. That gets you about half way there.

Then add treatments to the room and you get bliss.

Or keep your existing speakers and do treatments and that can also get you halfway there.

 

[srrxr71]

Interesting thread. I'm surprised so many people are surprised by this though? These impressions are fairly in line with many studies in loudspeaker research. These reactions indicate to me that many people's knowledge of perceptual studies in audio science remains superficial.

First of all: The law of diminishing returns sets in fairly early in loudspeakers. A decent speaker which costs $100 will sound much better than a speaker which costs $10. A speaker which costs $1000, however, will usually not sound ten times better than the speaker which costs $100. And a speaker which costs $10000 will certainly not sound ten times better than the speaker which costs $1000.

If you look at preference studies of loudspeakers, the difference in preference between the "best" and the "good" are usually not dramatically big.

Second: The Sonos 5s actually measure well.

Look at this post for links to measurements which look to be of good quality, unlike Rtings which was posted in the thread. Note the deep bass and the even frequency response.


The Sonos 5s also have wider dispersion than the Genelecs. Research shows most people like that.
Sonos also has a very good automatic room correction system, which actually works very well.

Personally I think one play 5 is a bit "meh", whereas two 5s corrected with trueplay sounds really really good.

I would not be surprised if blind tests would reveal some listeners to prefer the Sonos 5s to Genelecs.

Wouldn’t surprise me either. I remember having 1 of them and the room correction invoiced walking around the room waving a phone around. I didn’t understand the point of that.

Does a pair + true play use a different calibration strategy?

 

[GXAlan]

Wouldn’t surprise me either. I remember having 1 of them and the room correction invoiced walking around the room waving a phone around. I didn’t understand the point of that.

Does a pair + true play use a different calibration strategy?

Waving the phone around is a moving mic strategy to give you a true spatial average. For their home theater line, there is an additional measurement at the listening position specifically.

 

[srrxr71]

Waving the phone around is a moving mic strategy to give you a true spatial average. For their home theater line, there is an additional measurement at the listening position specifically.

Interesting. Since many of us have living spaces open to a kitchen maybe I should have kept the phone mic in the listening area only.

Also I found some Reddit folks who said that keeping the mic near and around the main listening position helped their calibration.

 

[GXAlan]

Interesting. Since many of us have living spaces open to a kitchen maybe I should have kept the phone mic in the listening area only.

Also I found some Reddit folks who said that keeping the mic near and around the main listening position helped their calibration.

Yes. Definitely keep it in the listening area for the best results. You may get some bass nodes or peaks outside the listening area though. The wide area is the most conservative tuning, but you can get surprisingly good results with Sonos 5’s in vertical listening position in stereo with a sub with careful Trueplay.

Still not as good as a well tuned setup but for something simple and convenient it is impressive.

 

[Peluvius]

Interesting thread. I'm surprised so many people are surprised by this though? These impressions are fairly in line with many studies in loudspeaker research. These reactions indicate to me that many people's knowledge of perceptual studies in audio science remains superficial.

What I found surprising about this thread (and still do) was that the OP bought a set of 8361s and still found the Sonos a close match for them.