Sonos Play 5 vs Genelec 8361A

[MarkS]

For example Kelly Clarkson "Because of you".

Just listened to it. Indeed I think this is the sort of music that will be less revealing of speaker differences. There's not a lot of channel separation, there's not a lot of dynamic range. I think the piano is an electronic piano, not acoustic (harder to record properly). I suspect that the song was recorded and mixed to sound good over a broad range of systems, including inexpensive earbuds, so there's less nuance for a higher-performing speaker to reveal.

That's good news OP! If the kind of music you like sounds good on inexpensive speakers, great! I'd sell the Genelecs and take a nice vacation.

As a similar story, I've never learned to notice the nuances in wine, so I buy inexpensive wine, and am happy drinking it.

I'm also very happy with my $1600 Goldenear Triton 7s, which don't get much love around here. I don't care. They sound very good to me on the music I like, and that's all that matters.

 

[Phorize]

This thread saved me $10K

Wondering how long Genelec can last now the secret is out

 

[johnwolf]

Great thread. I must admit I first thought the OP was trolling.

Hard to imagine there is so little between these speakers. I heard the sonos 5's on several occasions and thought they were nice sounding. They probably measure well too. However, I would imagine I'd be able to hear differences between them and a bigger speaker, let alone a very well measuring and low distorting one from Genelec.

For instance I have Genelec 8030's and Beolab 9's. The latter going down to 30 hz. The 8030 are a hifi experience but no way they present the same sound and seperation as the beolabs. And then we're not even talking about state of the art but over 10 year old technology!

To the OP: give the following songs a try
Nitin Sawhney - cd Beyond Skin - Nadia
Me'shell Ndegéocello - cd Ventriloquism
Elvis Presley - Crying in the Chapel
Jennifer Warnes- Bird on a wire
Gordon Goodwin's big fat band
Tracey Chapman - fast car
Any song by Tower of Power
Shirley Caesar - cd stand still

Thank you so much.

I can hear the difference, especially in the drum sound.

I think my overall ability to hear the difference has greatly improved with the suggestions from this forum. The reason is probably that I have never used a high end speaker like Genelec in the past. But with more listening, I am starting to get it.

Thanks to everyone.

 

[tktran303]

If I give you a $200 dollar stethoscope and a $20 stethoscope and I asked you to listen to someone’s heart or lungs, would you be able tell me there a big difference in what you’re hearing? (Nurses and physicians excluded)

1. Training…

It makes a difference in virtually everything.

2. Ignorance is bliss.

3. Sorry for your loss John.
The ASR crew have now got you going down the rabbit hole.

 

[johnwolf]

If I give you a $200 dollar stethoscope and a $20 stethoscope and I asked you to listen to someone’s heart or lungs, would you be able tell me there a big difference in what you’re hearing? (Nurses and physicians excluded)

1. Training…

It makes a difference in virtually everything.

2. Ignorance is bliss.

3. Sorry for your loss John.
The ASR crew have now got you going down the rabbit hole.

I think it's like a way of give-get.

 

[AwesomeSauce2015]

1. Training…

It makes a difference in virtually everything.

2. Ignorance is bliss.

3. Sorry for your loss John.
The ASR crew have now got you going down the rabbit hole.

I second all of these.
Sorry for your loss of innocence!

And also, Welcome to understanding proper Hi-Fi!

 

[johnwolf]

I second all of these.
Sorry for your loss of innocence!

And also, Welcome to understanding proper Hi-Fi!

"loss of innocence"? I love it.

 

[AwesomeSauce2015]

"loss of innocence"? I love it.

Aand I misspeeled it...
lol
wrong word.
I meant to say "ignorance".
ignorance is bliss...

 

[G|force]

Just for context I'm reading people talking about 12xx Genelec mains and 83xx ones in the same sentence as if that is some choice. If I may reiterate? The S360 is the smallest 'main' in the current line up and that overlaps with the 80xx and 83xx near field monitors. It is not a choice of which one to get, it's a decision of what is being accomplished. Buy nears AND mains if thats what you need, neither will do the others task properly.

 

[G|force]

Hands down. Go with JBL compression drivers.

I used to run Magnepan MG-III's in my home theater. I didn't think anything in the movie theater could beat my home setup. Then I saw "A Star is Born" in a well calibrated theater and it was clear that my home system couldn't compete for that kind of music. I switched to JBL compression driver based systems ...

2405 2420 2440 will cut you son

 

[GXAlan]

2405 2420 2440 will cut you son

I am running a 2426H

 

[Pearljam5000]

Pardon me for the ignorance.

I know the two speakers are not at the same level.

However I have both of them on the same wall, playing the same music but I can't barely figure out their differences.

Two Sonos Play 5 + Arc, using Sonos App/AirPlay
Two Genelec 8361A, using computer and RME babyface Pro

They are both on the same living room wall. The living room is about 15x15 with high slanted ceiling.

Please educate me.

Do you regret getting the Genelecs?

 

[dshreter]

Although most of the folks here are dedicated to achieving acoustic nirvana, the reality is that high quality audio is not necessarily profound. Sound played well enough and loudly sounds good!

It might just be that they both sound good and there’s nothing wrong with that. Proving to yourself that the Genelec sounds better won’t necessarily make music or movies more enjoyable which is the real objective.

 

[lherrm]

Sure. Pretty much any of the >7.5 speakers (of which there are many, passive or active), any decent ~$500 sub thats flat to 20Hz, a mini DSP, and any competent budget 100W class d amp. Would not only be indistinguishable from the Genelecs for the OP, but would likely noticably outperform them due to the dramatically improved bass extension and headroom. A more standard/typical setup would cost little more, but still like 1/5th the Genelecs. Same speakers and sub(s), but subbing in a Dirac equipped AVR. Hell, the Kali LP V2s by themselves would probably be indistinguishable for the OP and 99% of listeners for that matter.

Multiple $500 subs properly integrated and EQd would blow the Genelecs out of the water full stop, and any of the strongest spin sub-$1000 speakers would easily match them with minidsp or Dirac EQ. As I said, the $10,000 is buying you surprising extension in an all-in-one form factor with a very healthy luxury tax, not unbeatable or unmatched SQ. I didn't expect that to be a controversiaI statement on a science based forum.

I am not going to imagine the combinations and do the calculations but I still doubt you can have anything flat, powerful, directivity controlled, distortion "free" and with tight tolerances as the Genelec for anything like a fraction of their price. Even less something that would "easily outperform", "blow them out of the water".
The "very healthy luxury tax" grants you that all-in-one ready to go package that can handle its duty H24 7/7 with predictable and constant performance.
But, sure, if you don't need/want what the Genelec offers, you shouldn't go for it.

 

[johnwolf]

Do you regret getting the Genelecs?

Not at all, I love the Genelec.

For me this is the end game, search is over and I can concentrate on enjoying music.

In the case I may need an additional pair for a different room, I may give JBL a try.

 

[MarkS]

Not at all, I love the Genelec.

For me this is the end game, search is over and I can concentrate on enjoying music.

Fantastic! Concentrating on enjoying the music is indeed the thing to do!

 

[AwesomeSauce2015]

I am not going to imagine the combinations and do the calculations but I still doubt you can have anything flat, powerful, directivity controlled, distortion "free" and with tight tolerances as the Genelec for anything like a fraction of their price. Even less something that would "easily outperform", "blow them out of the water".
The "very healthy luxury tax" grants you that all-in-one ready to go package that can handle its duty H24 7/7 with predictable and constant performance.
But, sure, if you don't need/want what the Genelec offers, you shouldn't go for it.

Neumann is also quite expensive (in the U.S.A), so they're out for this.
But JBL:
I can get the 708P for about $2k each. Around 4-5k/pair.
They have good directivity, MORE power than the genelecs (IMO), flat FR, and fairly good distortion.
Then with the extra money I save I could add subwoofers. Lots of subwoofers which could actually blow a genelec monitor out of a pool of water.

I'm not saying that genelecs are bad. They are definitely at the top of their game. However, there is definitely an extra wasted cost to going with genelec vs other manufacturers as genelec doesn't have the large economies of scale, and they manufacture in finland. Both of which lead to higher costs. Example 3: Genelec has different coaxial drivers, woofers, and amps for all of "The Ones".
JBL on the other hand, can re-use engineering for other products. The 2408h, 2409, 2410, and D2430K compression drivers are all kind of based on the same ring radiator design. These drivers are used in loads of JBL products, which means they can distribute out the engineering cost over more units.

So once again, you probably can't find something that will beat a genelec in a nearfield application for under their price, but you CAN definitely get 99% of the performance for 1/4th the money, and if you reallocate those other 3/4ths to subwoofers, room treatments, and "apple juice", then I'd say JBL could probably beat the genelec system in an un-treated room with no subs and no "apple juice".

 

[Pearljam5000]

Neumann is also quite expensive (in the U.S.A), so they're out for this.
But JBL:
I can get the 708P for about $2k each. Around 4-5k/pair.
They have good directivity, MORE power than the genelecs (IMO), flat FR, and fairly good distortion.
Then with the extra money I save I could add subwoofers. Lots of subwoofers which could actually blow a genelec monitor out of a pool of water.

I'm not saying that genelecs are bad. They are definitely at the top of their game. However, there is definitely an extra wasted cost to going with genelec vs other manufacturers as genelec doesn't have the large economies of scale, and they manufacture in finland. Both of which lead to higher costs. Example 3: Genelec has different coaxial drivers, woofers, and amps for all of "The Ones".
JBL on the other hand, can re-use engineering for other products. The 2408h, 2409, 2410, and D2430K compression drivers are all kind of based on the same ring radiator design. These drivers are used in loads of JBL products, which means they can distribute out the engineering cost over more units.

So once again, you probably can't find something that will beat a genelec in a nearfield application for under their price, but you CAN definitely get 99% of the performance for 1/4th the money, and if you reallocate those other 3/4ths to subwoofers, room treatments, and "apple juice", then I'd say JBL could probably beat the genelec system in an un-treated room with no subs and no "apple juice".

You also need to take realiblity into consideration

 

[Marc v E]

Apple juice?

 

[lherrm]

Neumann is also quite expensive (in the U.S.A), so they're out for this.
But JBL:
I can get the 708P for about $2k each. Around 4-5k/pair.
They have good directivity, MORE power than the genelecs (IMO), flat FR, and fairly good distortion.
Then with the extra money I save I could add subwoofers. Lots of subwoofers which could actually blow a genelec monitor out of a pool of water.

I'm not saying that genelecs are bad. They are definitely at the top of their game. However, there is definitely an extra wasted cost to going with genelec vs other manufacturers as genelec doesn't have the large economies of scale, and they manufacture in finland. Both of which lead to higher costs. Example 3: Genelec has different coaxial drivers, woofers, and amps for all of "The Ones".
JBL on the other hand, can re-use engineering for other products. The 2408h, 2409, 2410, and D2430K compression drivers are all kind of based on the same ring radiator design. These drivers are used in loads of JBL products, which means they can distribute out the engineering cost over more units.

So once again, you probably can't find something that will beat a genelec in a nearfield application for under their price, but you CAN definitely get 99% of the performance for 1/4th the money, and if you reallocate those other 3/4ths to subwoofers, room treatments, and "apple juice", then I'd say JBL could probably beat the genelec system in an un-treated room with no subs and no "apple juice".

The system you're talking about seems to go rather towards $7-8k (adding multiple subwoofers, MiniDSP) than $1250, which is quite different.
Regarding power. Are we talking about 8361A ?
Sure, the 708p has a horn so is more efficient (in the treble) but we're having 250+250w against 750+150+150w.
For what it's worth, 708p's max SPL (manufacturer specs) :

Against 8361A's :

I can't see how the JBL could have more power. Distortion of 708p is fairly worse than 8361A (see amir's reviews).

Regarding the bass, sure, multiple subs would get you 10Hz lower (8361A are likely to be flat to 30Hz in room) and more even bass response.
But here's an excerpt of the 8361A review by amir :
"I was greeted with a level of clean and deep bass which I had never experienced with any other speaker I have tested.
It was like having the most perfectly integrated subwoofer next to a very powerful and capable speaker. Dynamics knew no limit"
[...] "No longer does a powered speaker have a limit in either deep bass or loudness".
This is from someone owning the full range Salon2.
Anywhere you read about the 8361A, the bass are a massive plus, subwoofer doesn't feel necessary (which doesn't mean it couldn't be beneficial).
"Dramatically improved bass extension" is not what I would expect from a configuration with a sub after listening to 8361A.
But I've never heard them nor a multisub system, so I could very well be wrong.

Also, 8361A is turnkey vs the multisub system, so that's assuming you have the time, understanding, skill to properly integrate the multiple subwoofers (if you even succeed at it), and that that time, understanding, skill is free.
And that's ignoring things like directivity, reliability (problematic for the 708p), sturdiness.
I tend to value to have something that just works.