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Sonos Play 5 vs Genelec 8361A

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johnwolf

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Looking at the Sonos 5's FAQ:


Can I connect Five to my TV?
The line-in connection isn't designed for use with a TV and will result in some latency or lip sync issues while the audio is converted from analog to digital.

Soo... how does one connect this to a TV?
You can pair it with Sonos arc/beam, which had a HDMI port that you can connect to TV.
 

DMill

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I found some measurements for the Sonos - I can't vouch for the site, but it looks legit to me. Pretty bad from a tested perspective if the charts are accurate.

 

stevenswall

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I have the GLM calibrated, the frequency graph is similar to the reviews on Youtube.

I have no intention to promote or demote either Sonos or Genelec.

I understand they are clearly designed for different use cases.

I am looking for suggestions of some songs or tests that I can do so that I can tell the difference.

Here's a song suggestion: "Reconsider" by Jamie XX. Fast forward to 2:10 and listen for the bass. See which one can handle it without distorting.

Then, to test something a little deeper still listen to "Why So Serious" from Dark Knight, and about 3:30 into it there is a part with only deep bass.

On the Sonos if you turn the volume up and down it should sound like it has more bass relative to other frequencies if you turn the volume down, and at high levels will not sound like that.

The Genelec should sound roughly the same from lower to higher volumes.

Finally: Sit on the floor. Stand above the speakers. Walk from right to left. Listen to what they sound like when they aren't directly pointed at you.

Genelecs sound nearly the same on or off axis. Sonos and other speakers not so much: There are midrange and treble frequencies that change as you move up and down, and sometimes left to right.
 

Danaxus

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If you're looking to hear a difference, perhaps try listening in near-field at lower volume, to negate some of the room issues. If you notice a difference, then know that difference will be much bigger if/when you treat your room properly. If you don't notice a difference, then it's simply a lack of experience/audio sensitivity, which is not a bad thing. In that case, I would personally sell the Genelecs (you'll make someone, somewhere very happy), and buy high quality lifestyle speaker - something that looks really good in your room and also performs well (LS50 Metas for example, in the colour of your choice). You'll get the best of both worlds - looks and sound.

In future, if you find yourself listening to music frequently enough that you start to notice the difference in audio quality between your Sonos and your nicer speakers, then you can upgrade your gear (though you really need to treat the room before you start buying stuff - once you hit a certain speaker quality level, treating the room will make a far bigger difference than any speaker could. $2000 on room treatment will do way more than going from a pair of Sonos to a $20,000 pair of Revels or Blades).
 

stevenswall

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I think it's one of two things. The OP is trying to troll, or the OP actually is impressed by how well the Sonos 5 sounds. He has a Sonos soundbar which wouldn't interact with the Sonos 5's (you cannot use it as a center with two fronts flanking it).

I've got a Sonos Five pair (with sub) and it replaced a Devialet Phantom Silver pair.

The Sonos is much better than you'd expect for a lifestyle product. I really think Amir or Erin should review it. Again, look at the bottom of the line Sonos Roam's spinorama.

The Sonos is hardly a competitor to a premium audiophile system if you're listening to anything well recorded for pleasure or intent.

I'm curious how your Devialet Phantom would fare against a Genelec. I'd have kept my smaller Reactors if they didn't keep cutting out with my bad wiring and having app and wifi issues. I think they are in the same league as Genelec sound wise at moderate volumes, and I like the coaxial dispersion and very clear sound. Some think the bass is too much but besides boosting the bass at lower levels, I think it's pretty even handed and would love to hear a Phantom with room correction.
 

GXAlan

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I'm curious how your Devialet Phantom would fare against a Genelec. I'd have kept my smaller Reactors if they didn't keep cutting out with my bad wiring and having app and wifi issues. I think they are in the same league as Genelec sound wise at moderate volumes, and I like the coaxial dispersion and very clear sound. Some think the bass is too much but besides boosting the bass at lower levels, I think it's pretty even handed and would love to hear a Phantom with room correction.
The Devialet's sounded great. Zero complaints there. Clean powerful bass at moderate volumes, attractive finish. I had the high gloss original stands with the white-wash stained wood. The silver's were better voiced than the gold's in my opinion. More of a downward tilt to the in-room response versus the Gold and a little bit (not a lot) of extra bass.

The Devialet software is horrible. DOS1.0 was great for local content. DOS 2.0 was necessary for connectivity reliability. It always seemed to be "one software update" away from being good. Randomly and rarely, but multiple times a *year* (so mathematically <1% of the time) it would just go to 100% volume which is horrible because it takes time to turn the volume down and the original Phantom (non Reactor) had no on-speaker mute or volume control, so you had to get into the app, and then correct it. 99% of the time, it's OK. But with little kids / toddlers in the house who might be playing right next to the speakers, a Devialet Phantom at full blast is not a good day. Most of the time you just had to pull the power cord from the wall since it was faster than trying to mute or stop the playback.

I had original USA market Phantom's. The very first Phantoms released in France and Harrods in London were missing Bluetooth. Mine does have Bluetooth, but this was before the Airplay or Phantom Gold's became available. I'm not sure if the issue was related to my hardware revision or what. Maybe the Airplay based electronics made things better. I'd typically be using Spotify Connect.

The Sonos Five (with sub) is a clear step down in quality. But I haven't had the Sonos suddenly go to full blast volume out of the blue.
 

GXAlan

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You can pair it with Sonos arc/beam, which had a HDMI port that you can connect to TV.

That will only let you run the Sonos Fives in rear channel mode or "all channel surround" mode as far as I know.

IT would be great if they let you run the Arc/Beam as a center channel and then the Fives as left and right.
 
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Thanks to the many suggestions, I think I can clearly hear the big difference in the bass distortion.

However, I still have a difficulty to hear the difference beyond the bass level. Any suggestions?
 

GXAlan

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I found some measurements for the Sonos - I can't vouch for the site, but it looks legit to me. Pretty bad from a tested perspective if the charts are accurate.


RTings is great for TV reviews. Not convinced about their audio reviews although they are consistent within their site.


Compare RTINGS vs Napilopez for the same product

 

GXAlan

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Thanks to the many suggestions, I think I can clearly hear the big difference in the bass distortion.

However, I still have a difficulty to hear the difference beyond the bass level. Any suggestions?

Sell the Genelec's then. I'm sure someone on this forum would pay a reasonable price. The Genelec's hold their value well, so if you're in the US, a dealer trade-in will go a long way.

I like my Sonos setup, but when listening to a concert like Disney Harmonious Live, it's pretty uninspiring. In contrast on my JBL flagship horns, the emotional content of music really comes through since it reflects the sound we often hear in person at a concert.

You may prefer the sound of horn speakers.

From Amir's review:
"I hardly ever come home from a show thinking of replacing my speakers with anything I see there. The only exception was a set of large horn speakers that had dynamics that I could not replicate with my Salon 2s. The 4349 allowed me to get there and so points to high efficiency mattering. People routinely underestimate how much power it takes to reproduce dynamics well. Even my high power amplifier struggles to push the Salon 2 there. But with 4349, that struggle disappeared with a bunch of headroom left."
 

Haint

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Could you please elaborate on a $1250 system that would have a spinorama and SPL/distortion handling comparable to 8361A ?

Sure. Pretty much any of the >7.5 speakers (of which there are many, passive or active), any decent ~$500 sub thats flat to 20Hz, a mini DSP, and any competent budget 100W class d amp. Would not only be indistinguishable from the Genelecs for the OP, but would likely noticably outperform them due to the dramatically improved bass extension and headroom. A more standard/typical setup would cost little more, but still like 1/5th the Genelecs. Same speakers and sub(s), but subbing in a Dirac equipped AVR. Hell, the Kali LP V2s by themselves would probably be indistinguishable for the OP and 99% of listeners for that matter.

Multiple $500 subs properly integrated and EQd would blow the Genelecs out of the water full stop, and any of the strongest spin sub-$1000 speakers would easily match them with minidsp or Dirac EQ. As I said, the $10,000 is buying you surprising extension in an all-in-one form factor with a very healthy luxury tax, not unbeatable or unmatched SQ. I didn't expect that to be a controversiaI statement on a science based forum.
 
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johnwolf

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That will only let you run the Sonos Fives in rear channel mode or "all channel surround" mode as far as I know.

IT would be great if they let you run the Arc/Beam as a center channel and then the Fives as left and right.
Sell the Genelec's then. I'm sure someone on this forum would pay a reasonable price. The Genelec's hold their value well, so if you're in the US, a dealer trade-in will go a long way.

I like my Sonos setup, but when listening to a concert like Disney Harmonious Live, it's pretty uninspiring. In contrast on my JBL flagship horns, the emotional content of music really comes through since it reflects the sound we often hear in person at a concert.

You may prefer the sound of horn speakers.

From Amir's review:
"I hardly ever come home from a show thinking of replacing my speakers with anything I see there. The only exception was a set of large horn speakers that had dynamics that I could not replicate with my Salon 2s. The 4349 allowed me to get there and so points to high efficiency mattering. People routinely underestimate how much power it takes to reproduce dynamics well. Even my high power amplifier struggles to push the Salon 2 there. But with 4349, that struggle disappeared with a bunch of headroom left."
I have belief in Genelec. I think I just need more time. Thanks for the suggestions anyway.
 

MarkS

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OP, what sort of music do you listen to?
(You may have already said, sorry if I missed it.)
 

cbracer

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That will only let you run the Sonos Fives in rear channel mode or "all channel surround" mode as far as I know.

IT would be great if they let you run the Arc/Beam as a center channel and then the Fives as left and right.
Agreed. I purchased the Arc and 2 of the 5's. Returned the Arc because it was horrible but kept the 5's because they sound really good. A bit more expensive than I wanted to spend for that room but I have nothing against the fives. Sonos believes the sound bar is all you should have upfront and they don't have provisions in their software for a traditional 5.1 system. But the fives in stereo with the "loud" option selected sound really good and integrate with airplay so easy for family members to play. There are other good reviews of it in stereo also: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/sonos-five.20866/
 

GXAlan

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Mostly popular singing music.

Hands down. Go with JBL compression drivers.

I used to run Magnepan MG-III's in my home theater. I didn't think anything in the movie theater could beat my home setup. Then I saw "A Star is Born" in a well calibrated theater and it was clear that my home system couldn't compete for that kind of music. I switched to JBL compression driver based systems and for pop and rock vocals, including well-mastered productions like Disney's Harmonious Plus on Disney+, the experience with the JBL compression driver is far better than what you'd expect based upon measurements, preference scores, and spinorama. Guitars? Acoustic audiophile like singing? The Magnepan gives you a larger than life experience which is superb.
 

Marc v E

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Great thread. I must admit I first thought the OP was trolling.

Hard to imagine there is so little between these speakers. I heard the sonos 5's on several occasions and thought they were nice sounding. They probably measure well too. However, I would imagine I'd be able to hear differences between them and a bigger speaker, let alone a very well measuring and low distorting one from Genelec.

For instance I have Genelec 8030's and Beolab 9's. The latter going down to 30 hz. The 8030 are a hifi experience but no way they present the same sound and seperation as the beolabs. And then we're not even talking about state of the art but over 10 year old technology!

To the OP: give the following songs a try
Nitin Sawhney - cd Beyond Skin - Nadia
Me'shell Ndegéocello - cd Ventriloquism
Elvis Presley - Crying in the Chapel
Jennifer Warnes- Bird on a wire
Gordon Goodwin's big fat band
Tracey Chapman - fast car
Any song by Tower of Power
Shirley Caesar - cd stand still
 
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